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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Gutted about NI rise

999 replies

CarryOnNurse20 · 07/09/2021 10:46

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

OP posts:
Mintjulia · 07/09/2021 13:47

It's an extra £40 a month for me I think. If the govt are putting up NI then I think they also need to scrap the pension triple lock.

If the policy is that everyone should contribute (and I accept we need to pay for covid somehow) then it should be everyone who has an income above basic single person's allowance, and that includes pensioners.

I'd also like to see them put the minimum wage up, so fewer people need to claim tax credits, and companies are paying properly for labour.

If it's loaded on the upper rate tax payers who, to be fair, already pay the majority of tax in the UK, then they find tax loopholes. If they add it to corporation tax, then companies move their accounting abroad.

Covid has affected us all and we all need to contribute, pensioners included.

rwalker · 07/09/2021 13:48

I think it's the right thing or where do we stop if you don't have kids should your taxes contribute to schools and uni's .

The only pensioner I know who have money and pension are the ones who have worked and contributed all there lives they have every right to expect to be looked after .
How is it fair that you can breeze fritter and blow your money so nothing left and the public pay . Where as the responsible one are litterlyy forced to bankruptcy before the public purse steps .

DynamoKev · 07/09/2021 13:48

[quote lllllllllll]@DynamoKev charitable giving?[/quote]
I and every boomer I know donates to various charities - but I am struggling to see the one that's going to even out the generational resentment.

VanGoghsDog · 07/09/2021 13:48

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

Someone on £20k is going to pay an extra £130.00, someone on £100k is going to pay an extra £1130. Hope this helps some of you who are complaining about only low payers being affected.
I don't think that people misunderstand how percentages work, it's more that people on low incomes are already struggling and another £20 pm could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

£20pm, even £200lm, would not mean the difference between eating or not to me, but it does to some people. Ironically often those providing the care this race is supposed to be funding.

Getawaywithit · 07/09/2021 13:49

Exactly. If you want care you pay for it

I can’t imagine there are many who actively seek out care in a care home. It’s a massive loss of independence. Dementia sufferers don’t want to be deprived of their liberties and many, if the truth be told, wouldn’t want to live till they can no longer toilet themselves, are crying because their mum hasn’t been to see them or who are bed bound and have to be spoon fed mush. If they were dying of cancer it would be free. It’s hard to argue that dementia should be any different.

lllllllllll · 07/09/2021 13:49

If the govt are putting up NI then I think they also need to scrap the pension triple lock.

@Mintjulia They have suspended it.

Emilyontmoor · 07/09/2021 13:50

I’m a boomer and we have already gladly sold PILs house to pay for the care FIL needed and which enabled him to live out his life in dignity. I grew up in a time when you didn’t think your financial future had inheritance factored in. We didn’t know that our parents homes would end up worth exponentially more than they paid for them. So we were very grateful that it enabled him to get the care he needed when it cost £1500 pounds we month. The people who cared for him were amazing but most in a prosperous town in the south east were EU citizens and are no longer allowed to come here. The non profit that run the home are unable to fill vacancies even though they pay higher than industry average wages and have excellent career development and HR policies.

So this proposal just buys a bit more treatment before you will still have to sell your home, it just ring fences £90k of your children’s in heritable instead of £23.5k. It does nothing to address the actual issues in social care of staffing shortages and the huge shortfall in public sector funding that has to be made up by privately funded care. The extra money falls short of the funding level in 2010. It does nothing for the younger people who make up half the people needing care who don’t so many assets in the first place.

Finally worst if all it shifts the cost on the younger generation, many of whom if they don’t have a Bank if Mum and Dad have no hope of buying a house.

Boris Johnson is a snake oil salesmen, remember the promise of a Brexit dividend for the NHS. He has only landed on a NI increase because so many believe it goes to the NHS (it doesn’t, it is another layer of general tax) But then that is what populists do “Why propose a six point policy based on evidence when you can blame somebody else”. All he cares about us hanging on to his older voters and making it look as off he hasn’t increased taxes.

But when their parent starts to struggle with the world and has round the clock care needs and the care home no longer has the staffing to care for them adequately perhaps it will dawn on people that not one politician has come up with a sustainable evidence based fairly funded policy to deal with the issues. You know that old fashioned concept of good governance…

And there was a little Covid bounce in all this, £1.5bn is quoted as saved on the pensions of the 150k+ who died of Covid as a result of the governments incompetence in controlling infection as they have done in other countries. That is what you mean to the government, better off dead.

Sylvvie · 07/09/2021 13:50

I am more than happy to pay an NI rise, like many on here also said they would be happy to do, for funding our NHS and social care.

I am NOT happy that taxes for businesses and the wealthy have not been raised and it's all on us.

DynamoKev · 07/09/2021 13:50

@Mintjulia

It's an extra £40 a month for me I think. If the govt are putting up NI then I think they also need to scrap the pension triple lock.

If the policy is that everyone should contribute (and I accept we need to pay for covid somehow) then it should be everyone who has an income above basic single person's allowance, and that includes pensioners.

I'd also like to see them put the minimum wage up, so fewer people need to claim tax credits, and companies are paying properly for labour.

If it's loaded on the upper rate tax payers who, to be fair, already pay the majority of tax in the UK, then they find tax loopholes. If they add it to corporation tax, then companies move their accounting abroad.

Covid has affected us all and we all need to contribute, pensioners included.

(and I accept we need to pay for covid somehow) I don't. The super rich aren't so why the fuck should we? It's just a political choice that workers should pay more and trustfarians don't.
lllllllllll · 07/09/2021 13:50

I can’t imagine there are many who actively seek out care in a care home. It’s a massive loss of independence. Dementia sufferers don’t want to be deprived of their liberties and many, if the truth be told, wouldn’t want to live till they can no longer toilet themselves, are crying because their mum hasn’t been to see them or who are bed bound and have to be spoon fed mush. If they were dying of cancer it would be free. It’s hard to argue that dementia should be any different.

Well said.

VanGoghsDog · 07/09/2021 13:50

If it's loaded on the upper rate tax payers who, to be fair, already pay the majority of tax in the UK, then they find tax loopholes. If they add it to corporation tax, then companies move their accounting abroad.

It's not "loaded" on upper rate tax payers. And I'm not sure you're right that they pay the majority of the tax in the UK, might be worth looking at some stats on that.

Re corp tax - putting it on employer's NI is essentially the same.

Claudethecat · 07/09/2021 13:51

The extra NI will be paid by all working adults, including people over the state pension age. At least that is something, but I agree an income tax increase would be much fairer.

JassyRadlett · 07/09/2021 13:51

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

Someone on £20k is going to pay an extra £130.00, someone on £100k is going to pay an extra £1130. Hope this helps some of you who are complaining about only low payers being affected.
No one is saying that only low payers will be affected. They are saying that it is regressive and disproportionately less affordable for the lower paid than those on higher incomes - including those who escape it altogether because it's on NI not income tax or IHT.
MadeOfStarStuff · 07/09/2021 13:52

YANBU

it’s horribly unfair for low income working people to pay more so that rich old people can avoid selling a home they don’t live in

VanGoghsDog · 07/09/2021 13:52

@Sylvvie

I am more than happy to pay an NI rise, like many on here also said they would be happy to do, for funding our NHS and social care.

I am NOT happy that taxes for businesses and the wealthy have not been raised and it's all on us.

Taxes for businesses that employ people have been raised, employer's NI is also going up.
DynamoKev · 07/09/2021 13:52

@Sylvvie

I am more than happy to pay an NI rise, like many on here also said they would be happy to do, for funding our NHS and social care.

I am NOT happy that taxes for businesses and the wealthy have not been raised and it's all on us.

On a small point of order, employers NI (effectively a business tax) have been increased. Even Amazon etc hasn't found a way to dodge Employers NI either.

I agree with the general thrust of your comments though.

DotDotDotDot · 07/09/2021 13:52

@MrsCat1

Completely agree with *@thecatsthecats* I think it is appalling that tax will be increased for the working to allow people to hang on to houses to pass down as inheritance. If people have the means to pay for their care in old age then that is what they should do. I despair.
Completely agree. I've never thought it wrong to sell assets to pay for care.

I am lucky enough to be able to afford the increase, but I don't see why I should, frankly. I'm happy to sell my home to pay for my care in old age. And how on earth young people are meant to afford pensions and houses and now this, I've no idea.

bluelavender · 07/09/2021 13:53

I am not sure that I trust that in 30 years time, people paying into this now will benefit from the plans that have been set out.

NI feels like a ponzi scheme where people's contributions pays for NHS and other care that is needed now; not an actual National Insurance scheme that people can trust that they will benefit from at a future date.

Perhaps there needs to be a law that would give people paying in how a guaranteed benefit in future if they need it

VanGoghsDog · 07/09/2021 13:53

@Claudethecat

The extra NI will be paid by all working adults, including people over the state pension age. At least that is something, but I agree an income tax increase would be much fairer.
How is it different though? Other than that very low earners under the NI threshold won't pay it and that threshold is lower than the income tax threshold?
Claudethecat · 07/09/2021 13:54

All he cares about us hanging on to his older voters and making it look as off he hasn’t increased taxes

Yep.

CarryOnNurse20 · 07/09/2021 13:54

Wow so many responses. It’s an emotive topic. Can I clarify I absolutely do not blame those who need social care and support an increase in funding for it 100%. I also knew we would pay more taxes due to covid/furlough but it just doesn’t seem fair.
My parents both have huge pensions. My dads is 3 x my current salary. They have a huge house worth a fortune as jumped up the ladder during the housing boom. They have been incredibly generous and gave us our deposit or we would never ever have got on the ladder. It just seems unfair that they and their friends have seemingly endless money while their children are all struggling (this is a snippet of society I know all pensioners are NOT the same). It would just seem fairer to tax income generally as it then is a lot fairer.
I don’t want to inherit loads of money when I’m 60. I want it to be fairer and to be able to work my decent job and afford a life for my family now. Passing money down the family later in life isn’t helpful or conducive to a well working society.

OP posts:
lllllllllll · 07/09/2021 13:54

so that rich old people can avoid selling a home they don’t live in

Once again:

  1. They're not all rich
  2. Many old people (understandably) would far rather receive their care at home than face the distressing prospect of selling their home of many years to go and live in a care home
  3. This tax is to fund all of social care, which includes those with disabilities. It's not just old people
Realyorkshiretea · 07/09/2021 13:55

My mother in law bangs on about what scroungers young working people are, claiming top up benefits and free school meals.

I pointed out she claims a state pension despite ‘retiring’ to have kids in her 20s and never working again, and also that she has a free bus pass, fuel allowance etc. That doesn’t count apparently because she’s ‘paid taxes all her life’ despite not having paid taxes all her life.

I really do know that not all pensioners are like this, my point is I think a lot of these posts are extra resentful not because of the NI but because it’s being increased to help people who don’t seem at all grateful or even bothered about what we are going through for them.

Once again - that does not apply to all pensioners, my grandma for instance is appalled at how young working people are treated these days.

lllllllllll · 07/09/2021 13:56

Once again - that does not apply to all pensioners, my grandma for instance is appalled at how young working people are treated these days.

Bit of a pointless argument then really!

Beautiful3 · 07/09/2021 13:56

Seems unfair for the lower earners. Many people live paycheck to paycheck.