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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm so sick of people buying multiple properties for BTL

522 replies

flashbac · 06/09/2021 10:02

So the landlord next door has hoovered up another house on the street for BTL. A nice house that wasn't even on the market but they managed to get their mits on it. Yes I know I sound bitter because I am! I'm so fed up of investors hoovering up all the houses. There should be a limit but with most of our government being BTL landlords nothing will change.
I'm sick of the increasing gap between rich and poor.
now runs and hides because reckons half of MN have a BTL or holiday home

OP posts:
Dnaltocs · 07/09/2021 19:07

Selling council houses was a crime.

I agree a ceiling on rents nationwide would be a comfort to many.
I’d like to live in London but can’t afford the prices and find it irritating some feel living in London is a rite.

Toomuchtrouble4me · 07/09/2021 19:09

What about those who inherit a house or two and let them out? Is that not allowed either?
If a home is for sale then anyone can buy it and it’s worth what the highest bidder will pay. Simples.

ERFFER · 07/09/2021 19:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VagFlannel21 · 07/09/2021 19:10

I work in BTL lending and can say after assessing a valuation report today where the property was described as "not fit for mortgage by high street lenders so would attract cash buyers only" that realistically some of the blame lies with mortgage providers here. I appreciate that it's not fair that suitable family homes are being snapped up by landlords wishing to make money from a housing shortage but at the same time I think it's better those properties are snapped up by a portfolio buyer rather than sit empty because they cannot sell to the regular person based on lending criteria.

Toomuchtrouble4me · 07/09/2021 19:11

@Davygran

I couldn’t agree more, one person’s home should not be another person’s pension. BTL landlords make me sick.
Why? It’s just business. Nobody is forced to buy or rent.
Brindisi32 · 07/09/2021 19:12

The situation is miserable if you’re renting or trying to buy. The reality is property buying/letting is more lucrative than pension schemes. This won’t change unless there’s a dramatic change. This govt won’t want to cap price rises or limit those developing portfolios.

I’ve watched the housing situation in my area and been stunned to see prices of rental houses and property shoot up. Wages aren’t in line with these increases.

Areas like Cornwall and Devon are struggling to provide housing for local people who don’t earn much. Holiday homes have pushed the prices up to exorbitant levels.

venus22 · 07/09/2021 19:21

@seaandsandcastles

Why shouldn’t they buy? They have the money, the property is for sale, the seller is happy to sell. End of.

We live in a capitalist society. If you have the money, you should be able to buy whatever you want.

Whatever you want....? Fur? Child porn? Someone's kidney? Leopard steak? Votes? Guns? Money is the only criteria, is it?
MrsKoala · 07/09/2021 19:32

I'm a landlord and have rented by choice when moving around for work. My thoughts/observations on this are that quite often people need to rent and this market isn't being catered for by anyone else. My 2 tenants are both single mums who have been told they will never be eligible for a mortgage. They cannot buy even though they have deposits from sales of previous marital properties as they earn too little to cover a mortgage (and are older so may need shorter mortgage loans).

Where do people live while they save to buy a property? It's rare you move out of home and have a deposit and a job which pays enough for a mortgage and you won't be eligible for council accommodation. What about students and those that travel round for work?

The rent people pay round here is actually less than a mortgage if they applied now. A 3 bed semi rents for £1200-1300 but if one were to buy it would be £400-500k. Even if you have a £100k deposit you'd need a mortgage of £300-400k which would be £1500+. This is because all the btl LLs bought a long time ago so the rent has settled at less than a current mortgage would be. People renting comparing their rental amount to those who have got mortgages 20 years ago are comparing apples and oranges.

A lot of properties which are on the market need work which first time buyers are either not willing or able to do. We needed to sell FILs flat urgently on his behalf when he went in to care. The flat was valued at £250k but needed cosmetic decorative work (estimated at £1-2k by a couple of local painters and could have been done easily for just the cost of paint if someone were willing to do it themselves). We put it on at £230k for a quick sale. Nothing. Then dropped to £210k. Still nothing. 2 neighbouring flats in the same new build block with the same layout sold for £250k.

I often view properties which would be perfect first time buyer flats ie 1 bedroom, no garden, need work. But they have been on the market for ages because no one wants them. The problem is those who view are either renting something nicer and don't want to downgrade thinking they should be able to afford something bigger and better than they already rent (haven't we all seen that on LLL). Or they are willing to do the work but because they need a mortgage on 95% of the value wouldn't actually have the money to do the work - even if the property is valued way below the mortgage offer. Lenders will only give you what something is valued at, so there's no borrowing more and using it to add value. You need to buy a more expensive already done up place to get the full loan that has been offered.

I do long leases, let people decorate and have pets. We replace anything like white goods within days of it stopping working. I think what should be in place is some kind of union that all LLs must join which enforces good treatment of tenants.

I've also rented from some terrible LLs who couldn't afford to do repairs because they'd mortgaged themselves up to the hilt and had nothing extra. I can't imagine doing this. What if the boiler broke or something? You need to have enough reserves to deal with anything that happens.

burritofan · 07/09/2021 19:38

What about those who inherit a house or two and let them out? Is that not allowed either?
If only there were some system whereby people could dispose of inherited assets by divesting of them in exchange for currency.

Davros · 07/09/2021 19:48

While interest rates are so low, people with money to invest are going to buy property

TalkSomeSense20 · 07/09/2021 19:56

@Mulletsaremisunderstood

I know what you mean OP, it is frustrating. Even though they will come on in a minute and talk about how they are not doing anything wrong and they are lovely landlords and how their poor tenants would have nowhere to live without their kindness and generosity blah blah.

The reality is, all it does is push up rental prices and stop other people from being able to afford a family home.

I'm not talking about people who have a holiday home that they rent out for a few weeks a year, but people who profit from other's inability to be approved for a mortgage is frustrating. And yes, it is legal, but morally it is dubious.

There should be a high tax on landlords who have multiple properties. But this will not happen because the government and their friends are landlords.

"I'm not talking about people who have a holiday home that they rent out for a few weeks a year, but people who profit from other's inability to be approved for a mortgage is frustrating. And yes, it is legal, but morally it is dubious." I'm sorry...what?? Not talking about people who have a holiday home they rent out for a few months a year?? But surely if you have a holiday home in a holiday spot you're contributing to the lack of a community and lessening the ability of local workers being able to access local homes?

'people who profit from others ability to be approved for a mortgage'? I'm not even sure where to start with this one! I can't decide if you are saying that everyone should be approved for a mortgage regardless. Or that if you aren't 'approved for a mortgage' you should have the right to live in housing subsidised by private landlords?

It does amaze me how people jump on the 'I blame the government' when it comes to the haves and have nots. Even the strictest socialist economies have an economic hierarchy.

Fhdfjiggvfhg · 07/09/2021 20:31

@flashbac

And that Homes Under The Hammer programme needs to p i s s off and die!
That’s so funny 😂
Allinadayswork80 · 07/09/2021 20:31

[quote FangsForTheMemory]@dangerrabbit The root cause of the housing crisis is that Thatcher let thousands of people buy their council homes and councils never built new ones.[/quote]
100% this 👏🏻

No OP, YANBU, I totally agree.

flashbac · 07/09/2021 20:34

@petelacey

It is jealousy. Did you want to buy another house or are you just angry? If you were not actively looking to buy then so what difference to you ?
I could actually be a parasite investor if I wanted to but I'm not a dick.
OP posts:
HairyAl · 07/09/2021 20:38

@1dayatatime

I wouldn’t want to live in a country where the government had control over whether or not a private individual or company could own assets they were able to afford to buy

+++++

I think we need to distinguish between freedom to buy assets an individual or company can afford to buy and hoarding.

When there is no supply / demand imbalance I don't think anyone would mind for example on how many shoes, handbags or cars a person owns because there is no structural shortage of these items.

But when there is a supply/ demand imbalance such as in housing then owning more of a particular asset than is required for personal use in order to drive up prices becomes hoarding and does warrant intervention. For example during the height of the pandemic if someone were to buy up alot of face masks in order to sell on at a profit then this becomes hoarding.

This is especially so where the asset is a necessity such as housing, water, energy or medical care and less where the asset is a luxury such as handbags.

This!
Journeyofthedragons · 07/09/2021 20:40

If a home is for sale then anyone can buy it and it’s worth what the highest bidder will pay

Thanks for explaining that to us Deborah
Meaden👍

Nosferatussidebit · 07/09/2021 20:48

@Davygran

I couldn’t agree more, one person’s home should not be another person’s pension. BTL landlords make me sick.
So where should people who don't want to buy live?
Lostmarbles2021 · 07/09/2021 20:52

DH has one as a pension. He’s self employed. Bought it years ago. Was his house when we got together but we then bought one together. We are ok but certainly not rich.

However, I do agree that the whole system is unfair. Not just the housing system but more generally- trickle down economics doesn’t work. The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer. It needs to change.

Betty65 · 07/09/2021 22:04

Get a better job so you can buy yourself....

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 07/09/2021 22:04

@ComtesseDeSpair

I wouldn’t want to live in a country where the government had control over whether or not a private individual or company could own assets they were able to afford to buy.

We need more housing in the UK and we need the infrastructure to keep up with it. There are ways you can make housing easier and more affordable to build and this is what the government needs to tackle (including rampant NIMBYism - driving between a number of Wiltshire towns yesterday I noticed hundreds of campaign signs to the tune of “[Town name] says NO! to new housing development here.” But new housing has to go somewhere, and if we want affordable housing then we have to accept it might be built near us.)

Exactly this! I agree with everything you say!
Talkwhilstyouwalk · 07/09/2021 22:09

Looking at it in a different way, why should the seller not get the best possible price for their property? If selling to a BTL landlord means they would get a better price (and probably a much easier chain!) then why on earth wouldn't they go for that option?

PeterG11 · 07/09/2021 22:14

Buy to let means people are living there, which is much better than buy to leave empty which many overseas buyers are doing, especially those from China. The new BTL Regulations mean very few bad rental properties exist now, and PROFITS are so LOW now that many Landlords have left the business and more are leaving every year.

bloodynamechangethe3rd · 07/09/2021 22:38

@flashbac

So the landlord next door has hoovered up another house on the street for BTL. A nice house that wasn't even on the market but they managed to get their mits on it. Yes I know I sound bitter because I am! I'm so fed up of investors hoovering up all the houses. There should be a limit but with most of our government being BTL landlords nothing will change. I'm sick of the increasing gap between rich and poor. *now runs and hides because reckons half of MN have a BTL or holiday home*
I'm a BTL landlord. I keep my rent 10-20% cheaper than other rentals on the market in the same area because I feel that the tenants are doing me a favour, I want to have two properties for each of my children. As their inheritance, but I equally don't want to drive the housing market up ridiculous and charge stupid rent, hence why I keep it low. For instance I let a 3 bed two bath end terrace, other houses the same are £900-£1200 mine is £675. I keep my tenants, they're happy and they pay on time. Why would I put the rent up?
Wackaday · 07/09/2021 23:52

The BTL market isnt that profitable for the average joe investor who may want one additional property as their pension pot. You are rinsed in stamp duty, capital gains and income tax.
Firstly the BTL when interest only is not deductable pre tax but only after profit.
Secondly, the housing market is so competitive that you don't get a look in if you are in a chain. Myself, another family member and a friend have all had to go down the approach of releasing equity from our current properties to raise the deposits and change to BTL in order to get a hope in hell i having our offers accepted on our next home.
Trust me, if I could sell off the property i owned (cladding nightmare stories but that's another thread) i would have loved to. Stamp duty alone was horrifying enough when you have a second property. Plus the stress of renting too, it's so volatile at the moment because of covid and no one wants to rent in the city anymore either.

Bertiebiscuit · 08/09/2021 00:05

Totally agree - given the huge homelessness problem we have in UK, I think it should be illegal to buy a house you aren't going to live in - I have no respect for greedy people who do this they put up prices for others and are a major cause of homelessness