I'm so sick of people buying multiple properties for BTL

[flashbac]

So the landlord next door has hoovered up another house on the street for BTL. A nice house that wasn't even on the market but they managed to get their mits on it. Yes I know I sound bitter because I am! I'm so fed up of investors hoovering up all the houses. There should be a limit but with most of our government being BTL landlords nothing will change.
I'm sick of the increasing gap between rich and poor.
now runs and hides because reckons half of MN have a BTL or holiday home

If the government built more social housing then they'd be less tenants for the private market and therefore landlords especially novice ones would sell up, but it'll never happen, because as you say there's too many people in government who profit from being landlords.

We had a chance with Jeremy Corbyn to change this, but it'll never happen now so 🤷‍♀️

Apologies for the lecture. Pensions and investment were my work and career for many years, and I have seen good and bad situations. The two best pieces of advice ever:

If it sounds too good to be true, it's fraud.

You need to save money in something long term that is likely to keep pace with inflation but will not collapse completely in bad times. A broad-based index linked tracker in something like the FTSE100 or the S&P500 (US) is probably your best bet until you are within five years of retiring. Just grit your teeth and stop reading the financial pages when all is doom and gloom. Stocks and shares are the only securities that have kept pace with life, and there are only a few five year spans (like the depression, world war 2) that would have left you worse off.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken - depends where you live. It was about 10 years ago when I bought when renting but I bought a family home while renting in London. It’s not impossible. It’s difficult but not impossible. If rent was cheaper though (ie if there was a better supply of rental housing - more btl landlords) I wouldn’t have bothered buying. But renting in London is a nightmare (as is buying tbh but at least once bought the issues start to fall off).

@XingMing is right - actual stocks and shares based pensions are much more tax advantageous than property.

@Happinessischocolate Equally, if Thatcher wouldn't have allowed council tenants to buy, then there would be more to go round.
As usual, promises were broken when she said she would allocate money to the council's to build more houses to replace the ones sold.

@BlotBangRub - I don’t know that that was the issue. In a way I think it’s good to have more mixed communities (so not just one big public housing ghetto). The issue is that public housing was sold off at a discount (including to my family) giving a windfall to some people at the cost to the taxpayer. Also the funds received were not enough to build new housing even if the public sector were good at building housing in a cost effective manner (they’re not - studies show they manage to spend about twice the private sector building the same house). But the issue is that not enough houses have been built for generations.

[quote BlotBangRub]@Happinessischocolate Equally, if Thatcher wouldn't have allowed council tenants to buy, then there would be more to go round.
As usual, promises were broken when she said she would allocate money to the council's to build more houses to replace the ones sold.[/quote]
When did Thatcher make that promise?

When she was banging on about how wonderful it would be for people to buy their council houses to get on the property ladder.
Which caused an uproar.
That's when.

YANBU Op, not fair, who needs 5+ houses or the rental income from 5+ houses

A few weeks ago a poster got roasted for suggesting the same about the old style pensions and here the hypocrisy stinks.

@xingming
35 years ago,I moved to Britain,because my partner lived in Britain.I believe to have a right to express what I dont like in this country(there are also thi gs I dont like in the country I was born)There are lots of things I like in this country(sadly,the Tories seam to destroy most of what Britain was really good about).the thread was about housing and the housing situation in this country is appalling!I know,Britain is very much in a Flag waving,nationalistic mood( not every person,but much too many sadly)and I cant stand it.

In fairness (not to Thatcher but generally), being able to buy their council house was often the only way somebody got on the property ladder. I've known some who have really appreciated it and love their house so much, take great care of it outside as well as in. It's a joy to them and something to leave to their children which will give them a leg up when the time comes. You can't blame people for buying.

Isn't part of the problem that interest rates are so low?

I'm a single parent, I got our investment property in the divorce, very cheap small weatherboard house near another small city.

It's had some capital growth, but it's not enough for me to be able to buy a small apartment where I actually live.

I've been saving for years and am now thinking maybe I use that money to buy another rental and perhaps in 2/3 years it may provide me with enough capital between both to buy somewhere to live in (currently in my rental 8 years).

Things that would help housing market.

Someone mentioned homes under the hammer earlier. Not sure if it's the prog I'm thinking of but if it's the one where a property that needs masses of work doing (electrics, replastering, get rid of asbestos etc) and they end up with a nice place they sell I think that's good.

There is loads of housing stock that could be made good but it's expensive. Time consuming. Each one is different.

But getting a clapped out place with a dodgy roof and modernising that brings it back to life. And back into the general stock it goes.

Brownfield sites. Expensive to build on. Builders like Greenfield. Nah. Again. Clapped out buildings going derelict if not listed or anything. That's better than pulling up new land often in places with little infrastructure etc.

Are overseas investors still buying up and leaving empty? That was a prob a few years ago. Needs to stop.

The issue with cladding massive issue leaving it to leaseholders is proper fucking shitty. The govt are in a lot of this essentially removing stock because there's somehow no one involved in the building design cladding anyone to hold to account. Fucks sake. They need to sort that out.

Builders need to adhere to decent standards so much built is the minimum and they are inflexible tiny etc etc and loads of short cuts. Nope.

In the end it's capitalism isn't it. Short view. No responsibility or care. Make as much money as quick as possible.

In terms of price. No idea. We're a small island and have a lot of people to house. London is a massive concentration of people jobs etc so that skews things and then ripples out. With hopefully more better off people in many office jobs wfh Street covid that might stabilise things a bit.

[quote AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken]@Plumtree391

Do you have experience of renting while trying to save a 10% deposit in the current renting climate?[/quote]
No. My son has and so have many of his friends. It does take a heck of a lot longer to get the deposit than it used to. They never seemed bothered, just accepted it - and enjoyed living in places for a few years where they didn't have the responsibility of maintenance. I suppose I would have had the same attitude in their position but, way back, it was easier to buy, renting was considered stupid.

I went to view a 3 bed flat over the weekend (thinking of upgrading). It was tenanted and the tenant was extremely hostile. He told me that his 3 children were out of the house because it was traumatizing to have people traipsing around the house for viewings. I lingered for an extra moment in one of the rooms, he stomped in and said - stop looking at my things, look at the house, not the things. it was all very awkward and even though he wasn't pleasant to say the least, I felt very sorry for him. The agent told me that the landlord had promised that he could stay long term but is now selling up after 1.5 years. It's probably not easy for a family of 5 to find another suitable rental in my area of London given that most family size rentals are minimum £2000-3000 per month.

And the worst part- this happened when I was buying my first flat too. There was this agent who refused to tell the family with a young baby that the flat was going to be sold to the highest bidder,and that 27 year old me was a BTL investor (yeah right). Needless to say, I steered clear. In fact my current flat was occupied by another young family with a baby before I bought it. I contacted her on Facebook about some post and she told me how much she loved the flat and the area.

It is very sad. My solution would be to build more affordable housing and prioritize people on medium incomes to buy (with the caveat that they can only sell to people on the same incomes) and keep some units for social rent. But I think there is very little political appetite for it, the British public want their houses with gardens in a peaceful green suburb. Even if realistically many of them may not be able to afford it (esp the young) or have to move faraway to afford it. They are fine with renting modest apartments and ex council houses but they want to buy their houses with gardens on the private market without any restrictions. A man's home is his castle and all that. It is fair enough to expect things and maybe it is even attainable for 60% of millenials but I don't understand why the 40% want to preserve the status quo despite being disadvantaged by it.

Most landlords will give their tenants plenty of time to find somewhere else and anyway, it can take ages for a property sale to go through. I too would feel sorry for my tenant and would probably let them keep their deposit but at the end of the day, they didn't have to have three children without first securing a proper home. During the 1.5 years they have occupied the house (such as the above example), they could have been looking round and saving money which is what most of us do. That's not so easy when you have children; one kid is expensive, never mind three.

@Plumtree391 I too would feel sorry for my tenant and would probably let them keep their deposit but at the end of the day, they didn't have to have three children without first securing a proper home.

Are you saying that people shouldn't have children unless they own their own home?

Ffs whys the bold not working...

@Plumtree391

i too would feel sorry for my tenant and would probably let them keep their deposit but at the end of the day, they didn't have to have three children without first securing a proper home.

Are you saying that people shouldn't have children unless they own their own home?

@GreenWillow

I wouldn’t want to live in a country where the government had control over whether or not a private individual or company could own assets they were able to afford to buy

This.

I think a lot of MNers (and the political left in general) are very naive and trusting when it comes to the relationship between the State and the Individual.

Well said @GreenWillow

Most landlords will give their tenants plenty of time to find somewhere else and anyway, it can take ages for a property sale to go through

No most landlords don't give you plenty of time, they give you 2 months as per the law, and they don't then say oh you can stay longer as the sale hasn't gone through yet as that would break the notice to leave that they've given you.

My landlord gave me 2 months notice after we'd been living there 13 years! He was very blasé about the fact that I couldn't find somewhere else to live, he wasn't impressed when the council told me to stay until the bailiffs were called as they couldn't rehouse me in temporary accommodation until the bailiffs were there. Fortunately my landlord had worded the notice to leave incorrectly twice so with a bit of expert advice I was able to stay another 6 months, and found another property 2 weeks before my time was up. New Landlord then gave me notice to leave after 2 years as his daughter wanted the house! And again statutory 2 months notice to find somewhere else. It's stressful, there's x amount of properties and 20 times x looking at them.

@Darkchocolateandcoffee if it's housing built by the government, why shouldnt they decide who should have it. That's the set up in my country,85% of the housing stock is state housing and the government only sells it to Singaporeans, and the new builds can only be bought by families earning 120k and below (around £60k, probably threshold has increased by now). We have the private market too where the likes of Richard Dyson can buy penthouses for millions and also a lot of Singaporeans do aspire to live in private housing (though it's generally viewed as a second step) even if the price is minimum the equivalent of £1 million for the same amount of space as a government apartment, albeit with pool and tennis court. But no one minds that the private housing prices are crazy (except maybe for the 15% of the population that choose to buy them) because there is 95% home ownership rate and we know that we can always buy state housing if we can't afford the private market.

I don't think in the UK, we could manage such a high state housing rate. But instead of letting private firms like Lloyds and John Lewis buy up homes to rent out, the government should step in. They think they can fund endless lockdowns, what is this in comparison (not that I disagree with lockdown if the circumstances allow). They can sell it for a reasonable price to locals who can't afford to buy on the private market, or rent it out to social tenants. Might help save on the housing benefit bill paid to private landlords

@Darkchocolateandcoffee but yes for the price I paid for my modest 1930s London apartment in zone 3, I could have bought a fancy 1000 square feet government condo with pool, clubhouse, karaoke room, spa and sauna in Singapore. This is in a country where salaries are on par with London and the population density is one of the highest in the world. Would not be possible without the huge government housing programme that means 95% of the population are home owners and so in a much better situation than the 30% of Brits who are renting.

@happinessischocolate

Ffs whys the bold not working...

@Plumtree391

i too would feel sorry for my tenant and would probably let them keep their deposit but at the end of the day, they didn't have to have three children without first securing a proper home.

Are you saying that people shouldn't have children unless they own their own home?

Agree - what a f*ckling ridiculous thing to say.

Basically she is saying you can't have kids unless you own a home.

What a fucking joke! No-one would ever have any if this was the case! Average age to have a kid now is about 29. If you think the average 29 year old can afford to buy a house you're having a laugh. And what about the 50% of women who have children younger than that? What 25 year old can afford to buy when the average property costs over £250,000.

Wake the fuck up love!!!

@happinessischocolate

Ffs whys the bold not working...

@Plumtree391

i too would feel sorry for my tenant and would probably let them keep their deposit but at the end of the day, they didn't have to have three children without first securing a proper home.

Are you saying that people shouldn't have children unless they own their own home?

I wouldn't tell people what they should and shouldn't do but most wouldn't have three I think. I don't know anyone who would in this day and age without at very least having a secure home to offer.

(I too had the bold not working sometimes, yesterday.)

Going back to a previous poster, two months notice for tenants to leave is not enough. Three months is more realistic.

I think it is dreadfully difficult for people having to find so much money for house deposits and the government should give some priority to sorting out that problem.

That's the way the UK is heading though, having children will be for the rich or the very poor - if you're in the middle and very lucky maybe you can have one child.