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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I'm so sick of people buying multiple properties for BTL

522 replies

flashbac · 06/09/2021 10:02

So the landlord next door has hoovered up another house on the street for BTL. A nice house that wasn't even on the market but they managed to get their mits on it. Yes I know I sound bitter because I am! I'm so fed up of investors hoovering up all the houses. There should be a limit but with most of our government being BTL landlords nothing will change.
I'm sick of the increasing gap between rich and poor.
now runs and hides because reckons half of MN have a BTL or holiday home

OP posts:
Journeyofthedragons · 06/09/2021 17:23

The majority are people who are trying to rent their old house or flat as a bit of a pension plan because the govt have decimated private pensions

Then it's in their interest as with any investment/business to do their due dilligence.

XingMing · 06/09/2021 17:30

Out of interest, Sommernacht89, what made you decide to move to the UK? And how did did it take you to feel yourself entitled to make derisive comments about "British" people?

If I, or anyone else, made such disparaging remarks about POC/refugees/religious groups, those comments would (rightly) be met by a barrage of accusations of racism. But it's clearly okay if the boot is on the other foot.......

XingMing · 06/09/2021 17:32

...how long... typo.

BoredZelda · 06/09/2021 17:45

This current housing boom isn't caused by lack of housing. It's cause by free flowing money in the form of credit and quantitative easing.

So only people with lots of money in the bank can buy property?

Where would everyone who can’t afford property live then, given you don’t agree with people buying properties to let out?

RazorSharp · 06/09/2021 18:03

@DocAutumn

Aw, just let the rich people have everything because they can afford to pay for it.

Also, with buy to let mortgages often requiring miniscule or no deposits and the tenants paying rent that more than covers the mortgage these rich people often aren't even investing any money in the properties they end up owning.

Incorrect! BTL mortgages need a higher deposit!
SciFiScream · 06/09/2021 18:06

@Ozanj

One of my friends has BTL properties because she wants to meet some religious requirements (she is muslim) and put more people on the housing ladder in a Shariah compliant way. This basically means she is renting houses out with zero profit to herself (with a view that her tenents will eventually buy them). I personally wouldn’t stop this.

I also know that our local churches, temple and Gurudwara have BTLs so they can offer affordable housing to their congregations. Again this isn’t something I would begrudge.

Wow, that's amazing. How will it work that the tenants eventually buy them? Is it like some sort of hire purchase?

If I won millions on the lottery I'd buy/build special homes for women escaping domestic abuse (of any sort) if there was a way to pass ownership on, that would be even better!

Planttrees · 06/09/2021 18:38

In my area 30 years ago most of the houses were owned by one man (a very well known wealthy individual). Gradually, one by one as the tenants moved out or died the houses have been sold so now there are very few rented properties available. As a result of this, the rent prices have escalated.

This is because there is less rental property available and more people wanting to rent - simple supply and demand. How anyone can think that less buy to let property will help the housing crisis is beyond me!

FibroidFanny · 06/09/2021 19:11

@supermoonrising

“and above all a continuous, gradual but steady upward transfer of wealth from the bottom 50% of the UK to the top 5% of the UK”

If this ISNT Tory policy than the Tories are absolutely shit at governing, because this is exactly what has been happening the last twenty years with the country under their control.

Wasn't Gordon Brown the Prime Minister until 2010?
lockdownmadnessdotcom · 06/09/2021 19:23

@CBUK2K2

What's more perverse than BTL is stamp duty, you actually get taxed for having the audacity to want to own a home for your family.
I don't disagree with this - stamp duty is a very strange tax.
Ickiness · 06/09/2021 20:16

Well we’ve got 8 properties that we rent out
We aren’t rich , some have mortgages
We’ve invested in property instead of expensive cars/holidays etc
They are our pension as pensions nowadays are worth shit!

Ickiness · 06/09/2021 20:17

Plus
People need properties to rent ! Not everyone can get a mortgage / or wants to!

RazorSharp · 06/09/2021 20:18

@Ickiness

Well we’ve got 8 properties that we rent out We aren’t rich , some have mortgages We’ve invested in property instead of expensive cars/holidays etc They are our pension as pensions nowadays are worth shit!
I get the have buy to let scenario, but please explain the pension are shit scenario?
Porcupineintherough · 06/09/2021 20:29

Pensions are first and foremost risky. Schemes go bust and people who think they've saved carefully all their lives end up with nothing.

RazorSharp · 06/09/2021 20:31

@Porcupineintherough

Pensions are first and foremost risky. Schemes go bust and people who think they've saved carefully all their lives end up with nothing.
Absolute twaddle! Look at the FCA AND FSCS compensation schemes!
BrendaBubbles · 06/09/2021 20:31

That’s the problem. No interest rate on savings leads us to seek other returns. Property seems to be the least risky. Want us to stop buying? Raise those interest rates so we can live on our cash

Plumtree391 · 06/09/2021 20:36

@Ickiness

Well we’ve got 8 properties that we rent out We aren’t rich , some have mortgages We’ve invested in property instead of expensive cars/holidays etc They are our pension as pensions nowadays are worth shit!
Sounds very sensible to me and, as you said in your subsequent post, there is a market for rentals.

I would say most people rent at some time in their lives, when they are young, before being able to buy a place. If there were no flats or houses to let, they'd have to stay at home with mum and dad indefinitely - a lot already do have to stay there for longer they would like, because they're saving for a deposit.

I would like to see it easier for people to get mortgages and not have to find a fortune to put down.

Plumtree391 · 06/09/2021 20:37

Aaargh, sorry to have started two paragraphs with 'I would'; it looks dreadful.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 06/09/2021 20:38

@Plumtree391

Do you have experience of renting while trying to save a 10% deposit in the current renting climate?

Plumtree391 · 06/09/2021 20:39

Fanny, yes, Gordon Brown was PM until 2010.

CayrolBaaaskin · 06/09/2021 20:53

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken - I have. I rented for years while saving for a deposit. Then I had to move for work so rented out my flat while renting a property elsewhere. The private rental market itself doesn’t work well in lots of places because there isn’t enough supply and regulation wasn’t good enough (but is getting better). But I have been both a renter and a landlord and I generally think the private rental market is a good thing and a necessary thing. Not everyone wants to buy at every stage in their lives.

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 06/09/2021 20:55

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken - I have. I rented for years while saving for a deposit. Then I had to move for work so rented out my flat while renting a property elsewhere. The private rental market itself doesn’t work well in lots of places because there isn’t enough supply and regulation wasn’t good enough (but is getting better). But I have been both a renter and a landlord and I generally think the private rental market is a good thing and a necessary thing. Not everyone wants to buy at every stage in their lives.[/quote]
When did you do this? Rent is such a huge portion of people’s outgoings now, it’s practically impossible to do it in 2021.

www.propertyreporter.co.uk/landlords/proportion-of-income-to-rent-hits-75-in-parts-of-england.html

XingMing · 06/09/2021 20:56

@RazorSharp, pensions are not as dependable as they were before 1997 when Gordon Brown's first budget removed the dividend tax credit. When it existed, pension dividend income (whether personal or company) was received and reinvested without taxation to accrue until it was drawn as income by the pensioner. At one stroke, that went largely overlooked at the time, GB stopped pension funds building up funds that could smooth rises and falls between good and bad years.

After three or four years of this regime, companies found themselves falling behind in their contributions to employee pension schemes, so either having to put much more in to meet the promised defined benefit pension (where the pensioner gets a set % of their final salary for every year they work) and so these schemes closed to new employees who were put into defined contribution pensions, where what you ended up with was only your own and the employer contribution without reference to your final earnings level.

A few, but very high profile, large companies that had traditionally run their pensions with large surpluses started to take 'pension holidays' with the purpose of catching back the slack. And then, a few like Maxwell and his Mirror Group Newspapers, came unstuck and defaulted on their liabilities.

At about this time, to illustrate my story with personal anecdata, I was a freelance specialist writer on business, money and investment. I had not much pension: my last employer went spectacularly bust in 1990, but the receivers did a very good deal and my £16,000 went into an annuity fund which promised an 8% return on investment at age 60. Now I am 60, I get £350 per month until I die, from £16,000. You do the maths.

So knowing that would not keep pace with inflation, and that the state pension was a game of diminishing returns, I started to read about other methods of saving/investing long term money. Eventually, DH and I, with our newborn son named on the paperwork created a self-invested personal pension. We make the investment decisions, the scheme is administered by a specialist institutional trustee who oversees the legality of our investments, and the whole thing rolls up into a family pile which we can draw down as needed for income, or leave to accumulate, or buy new investments (not residential property, which is explicitly prohibited, but most other standard securities). We haven't put much into it in the last 20 years, but we bought a warehouse (with a mortgage) which has been let for 17 years and which has paid rent to the SIPP to pay off the mortgage. We've concentrated on our small business (and it is very small) but now we are on the edge of retirement/selling up, we have made decent contributions in the last year, which will be invested for another few years before we need the next wedge of income.

I have deliberately made this post as open and clear and factual as my professional experience writing about money permits, and I genuinely hope it is helpful and of interest to anyone in their late 30s and early 40s (as we were then) who hopes for a secure comfortable retirement. Because, if you rely on the word of salesmen or politicians to reassure you that all will be well as long as you believe their promises, you are well and truly zipped up and trussed for plucking.

FibroidFanny · 06/09/2021 20:57

@Plumtree391

Fanny, yes, Gordon Brown was PM until 2010.
Thought so, yet I keep hearing that the tories have been in control for the last 20 years. It must be the Mandela effect in action!
BlotBangRub · 06/09/2021 21:02

If people can afford to, then why not. It's like being able to afford anything else in life. Some people can, some can't.

CayrolBaaaskin · 06/09/2021 21:05

Also in scotland there isn’t much difference between social rent and private rent these days. There is a security of tenure in the private sector and the right to buy is gone in the public sector. So generally public sector is a bit cheaper but worse areas and more basic properties with no flooring/ white goods/ etc. Private tends to be more expensive but better standard and you can pick where you want to live.

I tend to think the public sector often isn’t that good at providing housing - they are often disinterested at what people want and don’t bother making repairs timeously etc. You are expected to be grateful for whatever they happen to give you at any particular time. Communities are designed to suit whatever public policy objective is in fashion rather than what’s practical for tenants. I say that having grown up in council housing. For some bizarre reason, housing associations manage to spend twice as much building the same size house as the private sector does.

I think if we had enough supply, the private sector definitely has a role in housing.

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