To think this isn’t ok? 7-year-old said “I’m a really good follower.”

[Glassy5]

My DS was talking about a club that his friend invented. Ds’ sibling wanted to join the club, DS said it’s up to his friend because his friend cancels or creates new clubs whenever he wants to. DS said, “That’s his choice. He makes the rules and I just follow them. I think I’m a really good follower actually.” He said the last part proudly.

Ds is really small, quiet and shy and is definitely easily led. He also (by choice) doesn’t have many friends and only really one proper friend at school.

I also often overhear his older cousin tell him to do stuff they shouldn’t sometimes, and DS will do the thing.

My DF was there when it happened once and I said I was worried about that trait of DS’. (In this instance, DS’s cousin told DS to hit his other cousin because he wouldn’t play the game. DS did it.)

DF said that DS wants to do the not-nice thing, he’s only following because it gives him permission to do the thing he wants to do anyway.

But I’m not so sure!

And I don’t know if being a follower is a good thing. I try to raise DS’s self esteem… but I can suddenly see him getting into trouble when he’s older because he’s doing what his friends say, etc.

This all started when he started school, which he hated at first. He wasn’t like this before. But then, he’s been there for 3 years now, so it’s hard to tell anymore.

Not everyone is a leader, it's not a negative thing and ds sounds perfectly happy.

It’s not that I want him to be a leader - he wouldn’t suit that and that’s not what he wants. He doesn’t like being the centre of attention, he likes playing on his own, etc.

But I wonder if being a follower isn’t great? You’re not using your own judgement, just trusting other people’s?

I think it’s something to pick upon, and that you need to talk to him about exercising his own judgement about whether something is right or wrong, and that it’s his choice to do something, regardless of whether he’s been instructed. I don’t think I’d be happy with a young child fall8ng so completely into the role of someone else’s foot soldier so completely.

Where do you think he’s got the idea that it’s positive to be a ‘good follower’ from?

I agree with your dad. He wants to do the nasty things but doesn’t have the courage to do it himself. He then has the perfect excuse when he gets caught. I would personally punish him worse for every horrible thing he does at the ‘say so’ of others. I would also not let him go unsupervised around to his ‘friends’ and host all playdates at mine

I’m confused. You don’t necessarily want him to be a leader, but you don’t know if being a follower is good either, so what option does that really leave? Isolation?

I think you’re reading a bit too much into this. He’s only 7. When he said he’s a good follower, he could have just been referring to following the rules. I highly doubt a 7 year old child was musing about how he’s a follower and not a leader. Likewise in the situation with his cousins, a game with rules was also involved. He could have just felt that everyone should follow the rules and play the game. Or he could have thought it was okay simply because a family member told him to do it.

Again, he’s only 7. Who he is now has only a tangential correlation to who he will be as he grows up. When I was a kid I was asked what I wanted to do when I grew up and I answered “as little as possible.” Lol. Now I own 4 businesses and am working nonstop. Kids change, mature, learn as they grow up. He’s fine and I wouldn’t worry too much about any of this unless it continues as he gets older.

OP, this would worry me, too. You don't want DS in situations where he is taking the fall for stuff other kids come up with, just because he wants to be amenable. That could get problematic really quickly when they get older.

Teach him to use his own judgement like PP said. And that every time he plays with someone they take turns in deciding what to do next, not one child always picking the game or inventing the 'club', as that is not proper friendship. Teach him perhaps also through examples what it means to be taken advantage of. Kids have quite an innate sense of fairness, and framing it as being unfair might help him understand?

I am not a mum yet, so am not speaking from any experience. But were I a mum, I would feel also disconcerted by it.

It does sound like DS is prepared to do anything that keeps him in the good books of the leader/bully.
That can result in him doing some bullying himself.

It would worry me too, OP.
I don't think you need to lose sleep over it kind of worry, but I think it might be worth keeping an eye on and encouraging him to take up a hobby by himself that he can feel a sense of his own accomplishment. Unfortunately I find that people who are 'followers' are often less resilient, and i think its generally agreed that a strong sense of self is very beneficial for long term mental health
Again, wouldn't worry overly as he is still growing / developing and there may be elements of truth in your DF's explanation also, and it may just be his personality, we are all different. But i think you are not BU to keep an eye on it, and a good parent to be attuned nd paying attention to how your child is developing in order to consider how you might encourage his independence...

I’m confused. You don’t necessarily want him to be a leader, but you don’t know if being a follower is good either, so what option does that really leave? Isolation? It’s more that I don’t want him to blindly follow, I want him to use his own judgement as to what’s a good idea and not go along with the status quo, or what other children tell him to do.

Well, that’s my worry anyway - that he’ll follow regardless of whether it’s a good idea or not. It’s totally ok to follow sometimes, but I think he tends to follow all the time.

He may be a people pleaser in later life. I am. It’s got it good points and it’s bad.

He needs to learn to say no to doing wrong things though.

You can’t ‘buy’ friends with money, gifts, or by being a good follower. People will be friends with you if they like you. Not because you’re a good follower.

I remember being told “If your friends told you to jump off a cliff would you do it” back in the day. I actually had to think about the answer!!!

He has to learn that following the wider rules of parents and society is more important than listening to and then doing what another little boy says.

He’s allowed to say no to things he doesn’t want to do.

The boy shouldn’t be asking him to do naughty things in the first place. That’s not a good friend. If it’s your relative that’s his mum I’d be saying “can you ask Johnny to stop telling James to throw stones at the windows please”. It’s harder if it’s another kids parent you don’t know.

And I’d be punishing your son for doing naughty things saying “you don’t just do whatever other people tell you to if they are naughty things or you will be punished. Tell Johnny that throwing stones is dangerous and you’re not doing it”.

He'll be liking being a follower (in his childish way - as he's a child) because of the positive reinforcement he's getting from it at school / socially.
Acceptance, team play, inclusion, fun, absence of loneliness.
His childish pride in his finding a secure, happy place for himself after previously being socially isolated at school, is not to be derided.

I agree with you OP - I’d have talks with him about being confident in his own skin and judgement.
Proud of who he is
Not needing to follow others

People are either followers or leaders. Both have positives and negatives. Followers are often very empathetic, they are aware of others needs and tend to be able to read people well. One great thing about being a follower is that they have the potential to become a leader and they tend to make better leaders because of their people skills. It’s not nearly as easy for a leader to become a follower. My DH spent his whole life being a follower but was recently put in a position where he had to step up and take charge. He is incredible! All the experience he has from being a follower all his life has made him an amazing leader. He possesses traits that aren’t always seen in leaders. He is humble, level headed, kind, thoughtful, considerate and fair. HTH!

@GrandmaSteglitszch

It does sound like DS is prepared to do anything that keeps him in the good books of the leader/bully. That can result in him doing some bullying himself.

This is exactly my worry

There is such good advice on here, thank you for it all so far! I am reading and taking note of everything.

I’d really hate this and would be doing whatever I could to change the situation! 7 is a massive age for developing ideas about self and placing yourself in certain ‘categories’ (I’m good at gym, I’m daring, I get scared easily, I’m clumsy etc etc) and I don’t think you want to have your DS self identify as a follower. It gives rise to low self esteem, lack of personal direction, and erodes choices and essentially, well being, I think.

Hard to know what to do. I was worried my daughter was going to go the same way - but she seemed to totally change tangent and is now very much an independent thinker. I think in part due to reading lots of novels with headstrong heros (she loves reading and books seem to influence her a lot) and just talking loads to her about making her own judgements, about no one being in charge of her…and generally making her come to the understanding that some people appear to have the power in the playground, but it’s all just an illusion really.

But I wonder if being a follower isn’t great? You’re not using your own judgement, just trusting other people’s?

In teamwork, followers have their place and it is a valuable one. I disagree it isn’t about using your own judgement. If anything followers need to use their judgement more, because they have to know when to follow and when not to.

As long as you are confident he wouldn’t stick his head in a bucket of fire because his friend did, then be happy he knows what suits him.

@Ozanj

I agree with your dad. He wants to do the nasty things but doesn’t have the courage to do it himself. He then has the perfect excuse when he gets caught. I would personally punish him worse for every horrible thing he does at the ‘say so’ of others. I would also not let him go unsupervised around to his ‘friends’ and host all playdates at mine

Your Dad might have something here. It’s a good get out isn’t it? However, he also might be a bit of a doormat but if he’s happy there’s no need to worry just slowly work on his self esteem and show him it’s ok to say no

This is interesting because I think my DD (10) would have only ever dreamt of being a follower a few years ago, but has developed and is now fairly sure of her own mind now. I would use this as an opportunity to talk about when and where following is good and when it might not be so good. We all need to do a bit of following....keeping to the law of the land for example, following the advice of a Dr or teacher or whatever, or following./looking up to a genuine idol or mentor (I mean in an achievement/development/professional kind of setting not the Kardashians!). Then there is the kind of following that is rarely so good....as you say following friends down a path that we know deep down is wrong, following a stranger who we cannot trust, following somebody who we know is often in trouble, etc.

I think at 7 he's young, but old enough to talk about how 'following' can mean different things and it's important to question who or what we are following and why.

It’s never too early to install the importance of sticking to your principles and being unafraid to defend your own beliefs. The ability to stand up for yourself is so important.

My children are reserved and quiet - I’ve rammed this into their heads and they don’t get pushed around by anybody - I was worried they’d be obvious bully fodder - so far - neither have ever had a problem (touch wood)

People are either followers or leaders

Not necessarily. You can be firm in knowing own mind without necessarily leading others. Sounds as though that is what op needs to inspire in her son.

I used to worry about this when my DS when he was younger too. I lost count of the many conversations I had with him 'So if xx told you to stick your head in the oven, would you?' type of thing.
He grew out of it.
At 7 it's far too young to think this is his mind set forever. Encourage independent thinking. If he does something 'bad', punish him, don't make excuses for him. He needs to learn consequences.
He'll be fine, it's just a phase.

I’m surprised so many think that there is a binary choice between leading and following.

I work with kids and often use ‘But did YOU think it was a good idea/the right thing to do?’ in response to ‘So and so told me to do it’

I’m not asking them to lead anyone but themselves. I don’t necessarily want to turn out a group of potential CEOs but if they leave me with some idea of their own mind then I’ll take that.

I get it OP. I have 3 Ds and DS1 is extremely bold and confident, not worried what anyone thinks of him etc. DS2 is quietly confident but a bit of a people pleaser. Ive witnessed DS1 convince DS2 to give him all his pocket money, fetch things for him etc etc. And it does concern me alot! Both from the point of view of ds1 being manipulative and not respecting others and also ds2 being willing to give up things which are his in order to be liked and accepted. I view it as a character issue which I need to work on with both of them and i do always step in when they make this kind of agreement and explain to them why its wrong etc and about boundaries. Your ds needs to learn his boundaries too and about not letting others encroach on them. Its something you can work on with him x

I would be a bit alarmed by this as well OP.

I don't think being a follower is great either. There's a place for keeping your head down, teamwork, following instructions etc. But someone who lacks their own convictions and backbone is setting themselves up to be manipulated by others.

Don't over-react but have a gentle word.