To think this isn’t ok? 7-year-old said “I’m a really good follower.”

[Glassy5]

My DS was talking about a club that his friend invented. Ds’ sibling wanted to join the club, DS said it’s up to his friend because his friend cancels or creates new clubs whenever he wants to. DS said, “That’s his choice. He makes the rules and I just follow them. I think I’m a really good follower actually.” He said the last part proudly.

Ds is really small, quiet and shy and is definitely easily led. He also (by choice) doesn’t have many friends and only really one proper friend at school.

I also often overhear his older cousin tell him to do stuff they shouldn’t sometimes, and DS will do the thing.

My DF was there when it happened once and I said I was worried about that trait of DS’. (In this instance, DS’s cousin told DS to hit his other cousin because he wouldn’t play the game. DS did it.)

DF said that DS wants to do the not-nice thing, he’s only following because it gives him permission to do the thing he wants to do anyway.

But I’m not so sure!

And I don’t know if being a follower is a good thing. I try to raise DS’s self esteem… but I can suddenly see him getting into trouble when he’s older because he’s doing what his friends say, etc.

This all started when he started school, which he hated at first. He wasn’t like this before. But then, he’s been there for 3 years now, so it’s hard to tell anymore.

It's good to learn to be a follower and a leader. He's got the follower down, so I would look for ways to encourage him to lead more.

Maybe read up on assertiveness for children yourself, and try and incorporate that into his life in smaller ways. Let him pick what the family activity is, what the special dinner will be etc. Give him a taste of being the leader in his own environment first and subtly reinforce the message to all that he is making the decisions on that occasion.

If you see or hear of his cousin making him do naughty things I would call that out in no uncertain terms. Not just because it's naughty, but because it's wrong to encourage people to do bad things and your DS needs to hear you say that. Model sticking to your own standards.

Encourage your DS to start his own club. Tell him he can.

OP, this would worry me, too. You don't want DS in situations where he is taking the fall for stuff other kids come up with, just because he wants to be amenable

Same thoughts here. Of course not everyone can be a leader so there will be lots of followers, which is fine provided the followers aren't doing so blindly.

People are either followers or leaders

No, not really.

I'm neither, I o my own thing and I follow my judgement, but it took me a long time to get there.

I also think your dad might be on to something, he clearly knows him well, your son needs the confidence to make his own decisions and guidance to learn what right and wrong.

You and your dad sound like you're really on the ball here.

It's nonsense that people are either followers or leaders. In my job I am the leader in some contexts and a follower in others. It's all contextual. I think it may be helpful to talk about accountability though, 'just following orders' doesn't mean you aren't responsible for your actions.

I’m confused. You don’t necessarily want him to be a leader, but you don’t know if being a follower is good either, so what option does that really leave? Isolation?

Er, team player? Friend? Carer? Devil's Advocate? There are all sorts of ways we choose to be in a group. We should nurture children to be aware of what role they are in, which they favour, which they're good at etc.

OP I would talk to him about stuff like this, you could point it out in tv programmes he watches, or teams he follows, or just how you all are as a family. I also recommend the Bully Proof Kids book. He's actually come up with a pretty smart way of avoiding being bullied. It's problematic, but can be rectified.

This is a great TED talk (and it's only 3 minutes) about 'How To Start a Movement', and it talks about the huge power of the first follower.

I think there are two things you can help him with - first to make sure that he does equally important as someone who prefers to lead and that he knows he could if he wanted, but second, that if he's a good follower then thinking about how he can use his power for good. Who or what will he choose to follow? How would he challenge a leader if he didn't agree with a decision, or felt someone was being treated badly or put in danger? How would he lead if he needed to?

www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_how_to_start_a_movement/up-next

The link

I think you can play up the positive traits involved in following and encourage him to question it sometimes as well. It isn't leader/follower - everyone is allowed to develop boundaries and speak up if a "club" is really just a way to leave some people out.

He's a good listener, he's good at joining in, he isn't pushy, he's flexible - so he sees himself as a composite of these traits. My DD is quiet and prides herself on the dynamics of her friendships with children who talk a lot, but she isn't completely dominated by them.

Does he always do what you tell him? That might be the way you get him to reflect on what he would and wouldn't do if told? "If Brian told you to tidy your room, I bet you would..." "If mummy told you not to hit, and Brian says to hit - what would you decide?"

Would you feel better if he said 'I'm a really good participant' or 'an excellent team-player'? He's seven, so he's using the language he has.

You could probe whether he really means 'joiner in' and 'team member', or 'follower'. That is, is he making an informed choice to join in with stuff he likes, or does he actively enjoy being told what to do? A lot of children do, at some time in their lives. It doesn't necessarily foreshadow the same behaviour in adulthood, it can be a developmental stage. Childhood is all about experimentation, then moving on to the next experiment without analysis or backwards glance.

Different children develop at different rates, so you get phases where some are much more sophisticated than others. That has a big impact on friendship dynamics, especially given the way we throw together children at very different development stages and maturity, at school, just because they happen to be roughly the same age.

Groups where everyone is battling to be leader are a nightmare, they don't work and everyone falls out constantly. Group's need people with the humility and co-operative skills to participate in a follower capacity.

Of course you need to work on his ability to assert himself when needed, in two ways in particular; being able to say 'I don't like that, stop it' and to say 'I don't want to do that'. I would share your concern that he needs to understand that he is responsible for his own actions and 'he told me to do it' is no excuse. I think seven is about on the cusp of really starting to get that.

We bring children up to be compliant and follow instructions, at home and at school, after all. Recognising who is a legitimate authority figure and who isn't, is a skill that requires the development of some social and emotional intelligence.

Following, participating, co-operating is great. But being bullied, coerced or used, to do someone else's dirty work, are not.

If anyone is interested, this is a great little introduction to a theory about roles in groups. www.123test.com/team-roles-test/

People are either followers or leader

Completely untrue. Some people are more natural leaders, but there is an art to knowing when to lead, when to follow, when to say "no thank you" and follow your own course.

I would be worried by a 7 year old proudly defining themselves as a follower. I would be encouraging them to question what they really want, and why their wishes are less important than those of the person they are following. I would also be encouraging a range of friendships with a more equal balance, so he gets experience of leading or playing equitably.

If he were my child, I'd be interested to know where the language of follower and the concept of being a good follower came from. It's a little unusual for that age.

I'd be having little chats about what leaders and followers do in different contexts, and noticing in his TV viewing and bedtime stories which characters lead and which follow and how that works out for them. There's a rich seam to be mined there in fiction, where you can easily untangle the concepts from the personalities of your DC and his friends.

Could you find him some small tasks or responsibilities at home where he is specifically assigned leadership and organises his sibling, perhaps? It would be good to be able to develop and praise his leadership skills and help him learn he can be a good leader in some contexts and a good follower in others. The world needs both, and all of us need to be able to be both at different times.

I also often overhear his older cousin tell him to do stuff they shouldn’t sometimes, and DS will do the thing.

That stood out to me. That's something you can definitely act on, next time you overhear that, act straightaway.

Sadly in life there are followers and 'Leaders'.
Often in social groups... A self styled leader who has brown-nosing 'Lieutenants'..And why be part of this?

Who wants to ''Follow''? Who wants to have ''Followers''?

It is a sort of Herd mentality.

It's a great shame it is starting so young.

Your lovely DS should 'Plough his own furrow''...Not be a follower.

What values and boundaries have you taught him so far?

I think he needs to learn to have boundaries and to be able to say no and see that that is ok. He needs to understand that if people don't like him when he doesn't do what they want then they are not being a good friend. If you see the cousin trying to coerce him into things he shouldn't then the cousin definitely needs dealing with in front of your son and talking to your son about that situation is important too.

You could practice role playing it with him and be the cousin, get your son to say no, make some of the threats the cousin (or someone else) might so he is prepared for those situations and knows how to handle them. For example the cousin might tell him that he'll tell on him if he doesn't do what he says - yep I've had that one pulled on me as a child! Or he might say he'll never speak/play with him again, or he might say he's a baby or a chicken if he won't do it.

I would ask a lot of questions to get him thinking about the situation. What if your son wanted to make up a club? Would he be 'allowed' to do that by his friend? Would his friend follow him? What makes a good leader? Why does he think his friend is a good leader? Is being a good listener important? Being able to work with others? Being considerate and fair? Having ideas? What about a good follower? Don't they need those same skills? Doesn't he have those skills - give examples of times he shows those skills. Does there need to be a leader and a follower then, couldn't they both be equal and both have ideas?

He also needs to learn right from wrong of course, be clear it is never ok to hit someone and if someone tells you it is then they are telling lies. Again you could ask him why does he think his cousin got him to hit and didn't do the hitting himself? Talk to him about coercion and what it means - it might seem an awfully big word for a 7 year old but big words have power to kids. If he can spot 'coercion' and can turn round to his cousin and say 'I'm not doing that because that is coercion and that's really bad' the chances are his cousin will be thrown off balance and back off. If you can give him the power of words to deal with stuff it might really help.

He also (by choice) doesn’t have many friends and only really one proper friend at school.

I think this is really telling; OP’s son is obviously able to use his judgement & make choices as to who he does & doesn’t want to be friends with - that’s not someone who is easily led & blindly follows.

I think OP’s father is correct & her son actually wants to do the things he does & deliberately chooses who to ‘follow’ so he can participate in these behaviours & also has a get out of jail free card to say X told me to do it. I think OP is burying her head in the sand by blaming her son’s behaviour on others.

Make sure he doesn't get the idea that he avoids blame by saying others told him to do it.

I'd say as long as he's happy and isn't being pushed around, don't worry.

My DD was very much the same at his age, she was very quiet. She's now one of the most outgoing and confident people I know, she had the confidence to get a scholarship away from home for sixth form, did her uni application herself and is now on a year abroad.

@whatwouldsueheckdo

People are either followers or leaders

Not necessarily. You can be firm in knowing own mind without necessarily leading others. Sounds as though that is what op needs to inspire in her son.

I agree....most people are sometimes a follower, sometimes a leader, sometimes neither depending on the situation....think of work....where I worked there were folk who in their private lives sailing teachers, sports team coaches, on various committees including chairing them...school governers and so on. At work they had "follower jobs" where they did what they were asked to and had little decision making responsibility. On the other hand, by temperament I am a loner or a leader but started riding as an adult where I definitely had to be a follower. I wasn't any good at it and would never have got anywhere near being a leader in those circumstances but I loved the lessons and activities and continued them until my knees wouldn't allow.

I think in school they are often praised for being a good follower in the context of following the teacher's instructions, so if they line up when they are told to, do their work correctly, raise their hand to ask questions, that kind of thing.

So I would work, as much as you can with a 7 year old, on helping him to understand situations where he should follow instructions, and situations where he should make his own decisions.

I can see what you mean. Not everyone is a leader, but everyone should have the ability to assert their own needs/wishes/likes/dislikes, and draw their own boundaries regarding what they want to do.

And yes, following the herd in a bullying situation etc. isn't a good place to be - it's really important to have your own principles that you're prepared to stick to.

It's a tricky subject, but important to discuss with your DS the importance of not always following blindly.

Does his gang of two get into trouble at school? Have you ever spoken to a teacher about your concerns and listened to their perspective?

Gangs are often about the (selective, conditional) exclusion and control of people outside the gang, especially if they might want to join. What a great position to be in, having all the status of a gang-member, while being able to delegate all difficult decisions to the leader!

Your DS might have chosen this boy to be his leader because he's fun, imaginative, extroverted and more mature, so comes up with all sorts of great activities that your son enjoys but knows he couldn't have dreamed up himself, or persuaded anyone to join in with.

And/or, he might have recognised that this boy has power and status, so allying himself to him, in a mutually acceptable manner, confers power and status on him too. That might be to protect himself from others (has he experienced bullying in the past)? But it might be to enjoy exerting power over others, directly or by proxy.

His teacher would be the best person to talk to about what's actually going on.

I agree with you OP. He needs to have his own mind and the confidence to make his own decisions and to question others, not blindly doing what others tell him to.

I remember when I was a kid using the defence of “Jenny told me to do it” when I’d done something naughty (it was always Jenny!) and my mum saying “If Jenny told you to jump off a bridge, would you?” It might be worth trying something like that with your son. And telling him he is the one responsible for the bad behaviour, not the kid who told him to do it.

I’d be a bit concerned about his friend setting up clubs with rules as well. That seems like a way of excluding kids, which isn’t a nice way to play. I think you should talk to your son about that too.

It sounds like your son is quite easily led, and you need to tackle that. You don’t want him to be easily led when he’s a teenager and all his friends are taking drugs for example. Sadly my brother was like that and got into some terrible things.

Not everyone can be a leader, but the only
Alternative isn’t simply ’a follower’ . One can be a good ‘team player’. A good team player supports others in their team, but doesn’t have to do whatever they are told without question!