In wondering why UK can't adopt the Australian Healthcare system?

[chopc]

I was talking to some friends abroad and in Australia about frustrations with our wonderful
NHS for both patient and doctor. One of them wondered why we can't adopt the Australian Healthcare system. I thought the same and checked with those using it in Australia, and I can't see any downsides to it ........

What is stopping the UK adopting the same system?

It can only be anecdotal at best

Of course, and if the multiple, recurrent threads on here of people who can’t access primary care in a timely manner aren’t representative then that’s great.

But if they represent even a large minority then primary care is failing, isn’t it?

@nolongersurprised

I don't think anyone in the UK, so that includes all 4 countries, are going to say their individual NHSs are in great shape. Lol. Does that make you feel better? I'm not sure why it's so important to you to believe that the UK NHS needs a shed load of money spending on it and even that won't be enough, but I'm happy to admit that, especially if it gives you a lift through your day.

I don't want to repeat everything I've said about my primary care, emergency care and dentists but I can assure you that all my family have received treatment over the past 18mths so it is functioning. There are things that I'm not happy about, so maybe the Australian system that you seem to be a huge advocate of, would work better here. I've had cause to deal with quite a few countries' health care systems and I've never heard people not complaining about them so it's interesting to know Australia's is the gold standard with such great approval ratings from its citizens. 🙂

I'm not sure why it's so important to you to believe that the UK NHS needs a shed load of money spending on it and even that won't be enough

It’s just been for clarification. The thread devolved into discussion about the minutiae of Australian health care, leading to UK posters concluding that the poor wouldn’t be looked after well at tertiary level.

Whereas of course, the most important thing in a functioning health care system is access to primary care, which Australia generally does well, very remote areas notwithstanding. Other posters have said it’s problematic, you’ve inferred that it’s been overstated. I have no skin in the game.

Not being able to see a GP is a major problem, however. I haven’t commented on the funding models or otherwise.

There are loads of aspects of Australian health care I would change, parts of it loss me off daily.

*piss me off!

There is no point comparing the rural access to how the nhs could do it as the nhs has never had to contemplate that kind of large distance with very low population density.
Most of this thread is anecdotal

I started reading this thread and there's the usual combination of a little truth, fiction and outright made-up lies you see in threads about Australia
Ambulance sub in Melbourne for a family is $96 for a family for a year.
We are middle class and don't have private insurance.
I had a kidney transplant and a year of dialysis, have regular blood work, colonoscopies and other stuff and didn't/ don't pay a cent.
The care is excellent.
The nurses and doctors are outstanding.
Private hospitals are businesses. Nurse ratios are worse but I believe the food and curtains are better ( friend works in private).
You should be asked if you have private insurance if you are in public. I think all it means is that the private health fund is supposed to contribute to your care but it's up to you if you declare, you won't get different treatment.

We are middle class and don't have private insurance

So you take the tax hit?

@echt

We are middle class and don't have private insurance

So you take the tax hit?

We don't have to. I don't work any more ( medically retired ) and husband's income is under the threshold.

These threads just go around and around. When any sensible ideas about co funding are mentioned people froth up and start saying some people dont even have a spare £ so therefore it should still be free.

It really does need to change.

About the ambulances. They are free for people on welfare who have a health care card. Otherwise you pay $100 a year and get ambulance insurance. We are not high income and don’t have health insurance and have always had ambulance insurance.

Compared to an experience in the uk where a friend wasn’t able to buy a ventolin at the pharmacy and couldn’t get a gp appointment and was told to ‘ring the ambulance’ we as Australians saw this as a ridiculous waste of nhs resources! I’m not sure if that has now changed in the uk but in Australia ventolins have always been available in pharmacies and you dont need prescription

Why should it be Australia? Why wouldn't the UK look at neighbours like Ireland or the Netherlands to see how their systems work?

Germany France etc as well.

Yes that makes much more sense. To me as well!

@BroccoliFloret

Because the NHS is a sacred cow which shall not be changed ever. It is not acceptable politically for any party to say they think the NHS is broken and should be changed. All people working in the NHS are practically saints and cannot be criticised.

100 pc this.

Madness. The NHS is no longer fit for purpose.

What do you want instead?

I've lived there and in the UK and I wouldn't swap. A family member still in Oz and over 70 pays a fortune for prescriptions for several chronic conditions. No free prescriptions for over 60s. They've just paid a 3 figure sum for one injection. Plus you mostly have to pay up front and claim back on insurance which is a faff. They tried "bill billing" by Gaps yonks ago but some doctors were defrauding the system by inventing patients!

GPs, not Gaps.

@NewlyGranny

I've lived there and in the UK and I wouldn't swap. A family member still in Oz and over 70 pays a fortune for prescriptions for several chronic conditions. No free prescriptions for over 60s. They've just paid a 3 figure sum for one injection. Plus you mostly have to pay up front and claim back on insurance which is a faff. They tried "bill billing" by Gaps yonks ago but some doctors were defrauding the system by inventing patients!

There is a massive amount of misinformation on this thread.

Prescription payments have annual thresholds. If you receive the age pension, you are eligible for a concession card. If you are eligible for a concession card, your prescription payments are limited to $316 per annum. That is £170 per year or £14 per month. I don’t consider that a fortune by any stretch of the imagination.

www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/individuals/services/medicare/pharmaceutical-benefits-scheme/when-you-spend-lot-pbs-medicines/pbs-safety-net-thresholds

It all sounds very complicated as do a lot of healthcare systems that are alien to me (many of us prob).

I've had phi through work and have used it a few times it's a massive pita and personally I haven't found it that great for some things.

In some countries you have to claim back (I think? could be wrong). And that comes with a host of issues.

In the end there's way more things that can be treated now and way more people getting treatment for all sorts of things. That costs money.

You get what you pay for. Iirc when I looked last night we pay less per head than aus France Germany.

Caveat. USA loads per head and theirs is a disaster.

The private/ public thing is also a problem as seen in so many things.
Private bid cheap and then have to deliver. On plenty of big public things they have been shit. And where does the investment come from.
Public is often inefficient and can be wasteful. Not negotiating good contracts from suppliers etc.
PPP in the cases I can think of. Hoping to combine quality of public with efficiency of private have also failed.

In the end it's just an incredibly massive difficult problem.

All I know is that for me. Two or even 3 tier is not good. Any complexity in access is not good.

I think if we do change then looking to mainland Europe makes sense.

The cost of setting it all up would be immense though so there's that as well.

@Billynina
I buy my ventolin in the UK from Superdrug online without a prescription.

There are other better ways of doing it. Good examples in Europe, Germany, Scandinavia etc. It does need to change. Paying something towards it would be a start. It clearly isn't working at the moment. If other people in other countries in Europe can pay a small fee, why can't we?

@MonAlana

There are other better ways of doing it. Good examples in Europe, Germany, Scandinavia etc. It does need to change. Paying something towards it would be a start. It clearly isn't working at the moment. If other people in other countries in Europe can pay a small fee, why can't we?

Because the world will end!

It will destroy the NHS!

You’ll prevent people from accessing healthcare (even if there are exemptions for children, single mothers, pensioners,, low earners, those in receipt of benefits, smokers, overweight people, emergency workers, teachers, cleaners, shop assistants from anywhere except Waitrose, and their gardeners)!

Ok, I’ll stop channeling Momentum.

Too many people are too strongly attached to the idea of not paying for healthcare. Even a small fee is considered unacceptable. It ties in with healthcare being universal. And whilst I agree that everyone should be able to access healthcare, I ave no objection to those who can afford it, paying a small amount for it. But unfortunately, I think this is a minority view in the UK.

DifficultBloodyWoman (love the name!) that threshold only applies to drugs on a government list. Several of the drugs Australian relative needs, including the one-off treatment, were inevitably not included, hence having to go for broke to get them.

And I know it's not healthcare, but it is relevant that while we're both on pensions now, both after lifetimes of work in people-serving fields, I can keep my hand in and dabble with some work to enhance my income, while relative's Australian state pension is means-tested so when they do part time work - and they do, because they have the skills and experience and there's a crying need for them - their state pension is whittled back proportionately. That's a strong disincentive and effectively means they're working for nothing, which doesn't help with buying the essential but unlisted drugs. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Some snippets I learned this am on the radio, prescriptions were 20p in 79 when Thatcher came to power.
Today the NHS spends £90,000,000 pa on paracetamol prescriptions , 90% of all prescriptions are claimed free to the user.
When a prescription was 50p it was just under 50% claimed them free.

So will the extra NI contributions help fix the NHS?

@Billynina also ventolin is addictive for some. Also regular use can indicate someone does not have good asthma control. It can affect other medications. Adults and children still die of asthma, ventolin only treats the symptoms.

So here your GP need to know you are taking it and how often. In my region it is free on prescription.

Pros of changing to buy ventolin on demand - less cost to NHS, ease of access for patients
Cons - above