In wondering why UK can't adopt the Australian Healthcare system?

[chopc]

I was talking to some friends abroad and in Australia about frustrations with our wonderful
NHS for both patient and doctor. One of them wondered why we can't adopt the Australian Healthcare system. I thought the same and checked with those using it in Australia, and I can't see any downsides to it ........

What is stopping the UK adopting the same system?

That’s not true. The NHS charges non-UK residents. I don’t know what has happened with Brexit and EU citizens, but Australians can get emergency treatment on the NHS via a reciprocal health care agreement: UK passport holders can do the same in Australia. But the NHS charges people who are resident in countries where no such arrangement exists.

How efficient the NHS is in chasing that money I don’t know. Traditionally many Brits who live overseas, like in Spain for example, are also supposed to pay. I think 3 months is the residency rule.

If you’re holding up your health care system as exemplary then the base level care which serves the poorest and most vulnerable in your society should be superior to the other health care service.
Nothing here convinced me that it is.
Sure, it’s more than likely better for middle income earners and above but that’s not enough for me.

Overall the Australian system isn’t perfect. In some areas it’s exemplary. In other areas it’s just as bad or worse than the NHS. But overall it’s better because the hybrid system takes pressure off the public system. Without it, it would be as bad as the NHS.

Poor people in Australia are better off in every aspect of healthcare apart from teeth. They wait less time for chronic problems, and are treated better in the emergency departments. A bad day in an Australian hospital would be called normal in most NHS hospitals.

If you’re holding up your health care system as exemplary then the base level care which serves the poorest and most vulnerable in your society should be superior to the other health care service

No one is saying it’s exemplary. There’s aspects about it that piss me off daily.

But there IS a health system, people can see GPs for an acute issue within a reasonable timeframe, not weeks later. Or is this GP access issue exaggerated by MN?

@nolongersurprised

If you’re holding up your health care system as exemplary then the base level care which serves the poorest and most vulnerable in your society should be superior to the other health care service

No one is saying it’s exemplary. There’s aspects about it that piss me off daily.

But there IS a health system, people can see GPs for an acute issue within a reasonable timeframe, not weeks later. Or is this GP access issue exaggerated by MN?

I assume it does exist but hard to say by what proportion.

I’ve always been able to access fast GP care.

On taking burden off NHS that could be looked at through private, even if not Aus version. I have completely taken this for granted and not used it until recently but I’m yet to see a job spec for my sector that doesn’t have private included as a benefit.

Apparently in Germany you can refer yourself for physio

You can do that here where I live.

@Blossomtoes

Apparently in Germany you can refer yourself for physio

You can do that here where I live.

In many countries in the world you can go directly to any specialists. Where I live, you're encouraged to go via the GP and I think it may be cheaper, but you can go direct. Some specialists are considered like primary care in many other countries though eg gynaecologist and paediatrician and people go to them without a moment's thought.

"people can see GPs for an acute issue within a reasonable timeframe, not weeks later. Or is this GP access issue exaggerated by MN?"

Some people can, others can't. It depends on the supply and demand of doctors in your area and the system chosen by your surgery. I've seen in the same surgery a drop-in system that worked really well as well as an extremely complicated 'computer says no' system that was Kafkaesque and almost a joke (you had to book your appointment two weeks to the day that you would be seen, not two weeks and one day, or three weeks from the day, but two weeks exactly from making the appointment).

@MarshaBradyo private cover in the uk is typically more limited than in oz. I was shocked the uk cover didn’t cover contact lenses and glasses, and I said above i exceeded my lifetime limit for a fairly common treatment type in a few months. I usually have this treatment every few years in oz. plus a lot of private doesn’t cover maternity which is a big thing in private health in oz, and I’m sure there are a lot of other examples.

@NotBadConsidering

That’s not true. The NHS charges non-UK residents. I don’t know what has happened with Brexit and EU citizens, but Australians can get emergency treatment on the NHS via a reciprocal health care agreement: UK passport holders can do the same in Australia. But the NHS charges people who are resident in countries where no such arrangement exists.

How efficient the NHS is in chasing that money I don’t know. Traditionally many Brits who live overseas, like in Spain for example, are also supposed to pay. I think 3 months is the residency rule.

Foreign visitors can see GPs free of charge

"If you're in England for a short visit but need to see a GP, you can register as a temporary patient with a local doctor.

You need to be in the area for more than 24 hours but less than 3 months.

Again, it's up to the GP practice to decide whether or not they'll accept new patients.

Treatment will be free of charge, but make sure you present your European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) if you have one (see more information on this page for EU citizens)."

The website goes on to say you have to pay/use EHIC card for hospital treatment if you're not a resident.

Some people can, others can't. It depends on the supply and demand of doctors in your area and the system chosen by your surgery

And surely that’s the bottom line, isn’t it? A lot of discussion on here has been about the finer points of the Australian system and its various intricacies. But if you don’t have a functional primary care service you don’t have a functioning health care system.

Especially as people can’t just self-refer to other specialists in the NHS.

Foreign visitors can see GPs free of charge

But they’d have no chance of booking an appointment!

Hospital treatment is charged for, unless there’s an agreement between countries, is what I was alluding to. It’s certainly not true that the NHS treats all and sundry from all over the world for free.

@nolongersurprised

Some people can, others can't. It depends on the supply and demand of doctors in your area and the system chosen by your surgery

And surely that’s the bottom line, isn’t it? A lot of discussion on here has been about the finer points of the Australian system and its various intricacies. But if you don’t have a functional primary care service you don’t have a functioning health care system.

Especially as people can’t just self-refer to other specialists in the NHS.

Yes, I think the NHS is probably quite good at very serious and urgent problems and also some preventive things like the smear test programme, but if people cannot access the GP to get a diagnosis in the first place their symptoms will get worse and the disease will progress until they're serious enough to get some care. Then you have the whole problem of the waiting lists for certain procedures and the extra pain caused by people having to wait months and years to be treated properly.

"Foreign visitors can see GPs free of charge

But they’d have no chance of booking an appointment!"

Apparently not at Marsha's surgery.
The last time I saw a doctor was only possible because I saw the practice nurse and she made it for me. Asking and asking the receptionists was getting me nowhere. I had been trying for months, going to the surgery because I could never get through on the phone.

We had fairly good Gp access in london (not as good as back in oz) and we took my in laws and my sister to a minor injuries walk in when they each needed immediate care. I don’t think we could take in laws to gp. Sister is a British citizen but wasn’t registered at a gp as visiting so the only way to get a quick check seemed a minor injuries walk in, and just wait.

@nolongersurprised
But there IS a health system

What are you talking about? We have a health care system. I've been to the gp twice over lockdown. My sister has been several time, my BIL has been to hospital twice to see a consultant and then to have tests. My mother has been admitted to hospital for 2 blood transfusions. I've been to the dentist over lockdown and had root canal work and a crown. Routine appointments have been back up and running since February. I don't get suggestion that the uk is operating without a functioning health care system.

@NotBadConsidering

So you didn’t pay 420 per child, you paid 280. Worth being accurate so people get an idea about what costs actually are.

If you’re talking about Marfan Syndrome or Loeys Dietz or similar, if there’s a known cardiac risk then it still wouldn’t take 3.5 years for a child to be seen at the children’s hospital.

If there’s a known cardiac association with any syndrome, the paediatric cardiologists here will see, and much sooner than 3.5 years. There must be a problem at your local children’s hospital for this. Or it may be 3.5 years for a 17 year old to be seen in the adult service. Even then it’s a ridiculously long time. It’s important people reading the thread appreciate that what you’re describing isn’t the norm for children’s healthcare in Australia.

Likewise, what some UK mumsnetters post about their GP/hospital experiences isn’t the norm for all people in the UK.

I had a face to face NHS GP appointment within 24 hours of contacting my GP surgery a month ago. GP agreed that I needed a hospital referral to see a consultant.

But, according to threads on here all GP surgeries in the UK are refusing to see patients and rarely do referrals 🤷‍♀️

@NotBadConsidering

That’s not true. The NHS charges non-UK residents. I don’t know what has happened with Brexit and EU citizens, but Australians can get emergency treatment on the NHS via a reciprocal health care agreement: UK passport holders can do the same in Australia. But the NHS charges people who are resident in countries where no such arrangement exists.

How efficient the NHS is in chasing that money I don’t know. Traditionally many Brits who live overseas, like in Spain for example, are also supposed to pay. I think 3 months is the residency rule.

The NHS doesn’t charge non residents. I took an elderly relative who was visiting from Spain to a UK hospital. My relative tried to insist that the receptionist take their health insurance details or Spanish address, but the receptionist refused. The paperwork was instead processed with my address on, and no mention of being insured/not UK resident. My relative needed x-rays, as well as blood tests so not a simple check over either.

I haven’t had a face to face appointment with my GP since before Covid but I was referred to a physiotherapist last October after a phone call consultation with my GP.
I don’t think I needed to see them. It was purely the referral I needed.

I have attended various clinics in the hospital 35 times over lockdown

Seen the GP varies times, had blood tests and seen nurses at the GP surgery various times

I think i will stick with our wonderful NHS

Poor people in Australia are better off in every aspect of healthcare apart from teeth.

This isn’t true. Even something as basic and as necessary as an emergency ambulance is only free in two states. Doesn’t that mean that residents without Medicare will have to pay for it?
I’ve just looked at the cost and they go into the thousands.

www.news.com.au/best-of/money/how-much-does-an-ambulance-cost-in-australia/news-story/32a37d702e6e11361cc0ec129aed05d6%3famp

If this is accurate, it’s terrible for economically deprived residents

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.news.com.au/best-of/money/how-much-does-an-ambulance-cost-in-australia/news-story/32a37d702e6e11361cc0ec129aed05d6%3famp

Sorry I’ll try posting the link again

What are you talking about? We have a health care system

Not if the many MN posts talking about it taking weeks and weeks to have contact with a GP are. You don’t have a functioning health care system without primary care.

I mean, there are challenges to accessing health care in parts of Australia as well - people living in very remote areas are disadvantaged, with actual access to tertiary or emergency care problematic. They don’t have local specialisers and in emergencies need to be transported out by air.

However, as stated multiple times on this thread, for most of us, if we want to see a GP in a reasonable time frame we can. There some excellent GPs who may be harder to get into but someone will be available. My GP is very popular but if one of my children was unwell I could get one of her emergency appointments this afternoon.

I had been trying for months, going to the surgery because I could never get through on the phone

gwen couldn’t see a GP - MN has me believe that’s not that unusual with the NHS at the moment. Or is it just a tiny, but vocal percentage?

Dont know about Australia but this
The NHS is still the envy of the world
😂😂 OMG do people really think that, lol.
Many, many country have "free" Healthcare, that is miles better then the NHS, where you have to beg GP's to let you see a specialist. Please.