In wondering why UK can't adopt the Australian Healthcare system?

[chopc]

I was talking to some friends abroad and in Australia about frustrations with our wonderful
NHS for both patient and doctor. One of them wondered why we can't adopt the Australian Healthcare system. I thought the same and checked with those using it in Australia, and I can't see any downsides to it ........

What is stopping the UK adopting the same system?

I can’t remember what the details were but I was in Australia a few years ago and heard a conversation where they were slating it, I think around care of long term conditions and palliative care which is terrible. On paper it sounds great but I think the reality is pretty different.

I think the main reason is those making decisions want to know how they will profit from the healthcare system and the american model seems to be the one they like so i presume can grow individual wealth quickest.

There are lots of effective healthcare systems that arent the nhs but they never seem to look at them.

Loads of countries have systems where people pay something towards their treatment, some good systems in Europe
Our government is only interested in capitalism and there is a conflict of interest as some have interests in US health companies. They have just gone down privatisation by the back door route

There are plenty of posters on here who pipe up when the NHS is discussed that they would welcome a privatised service. I can't understand why you would want the person who is advising that you require/don't require surgery to benefit financially from that surgery. I prefer financial benefit/medical decision making to be totally separate

Because the NHS is a sacred cow which shall not be changed ever. It is not acceptable politically for any party to say they think the NHS is broken and should be changed. All people working in the NHS are practically saints and cannot be criticised.

It might make people appreciate it more if it wasn't 'free'.
It's so unwieldy it's easy to use and abuse.
And so much money is wasted

In the NHS
Oops posted too soon

* I can't understand why you would want the person who is advising that you require/don't require surgery to benefit financially from that surgery. I prefer financial benefit/medical decision making to be totally separate. *

Absolutely this. When I needed medical care in the US, the local urgent care center ordered tests for me that were not medically necessary. Putting profit before care. I found it really unethical.

In Australia, you are penalised in terms of tax if you don't take out private healthcare. It kicks in at $90,000 pa for a single person.

The private health "providers" are a minefield to navigate.
They're not cheap, have a list of exclusions (cataracts) as long as my arm and you still have to pay excess.

What is the system in Australia?

Because any system involving any amount of insurance component, even when this is not-for-profit, will carry an additional layer of bureaucracy and be more expensive.

That is not to say the NHS could not be improved.

And you have to pay for ambulances.

I work in the public health system in Australia. I have experience working in the private system and do not work in it any longer (despite vastly higher wages) as I consider it so unethical.

There are many, many downsides. You need to read more widely.

Every healthcare system will have pros and cons, and some people and situations to whom it is less well suited. There is no perfect healthcare system for everybody.

Whenever there is a discussion about different healthcare systems, the negatives of other systems are quickly pointed out, although of course our current system has negatives too. It makes makes discussion about other options politically difficult.

Politically it is easier to tinker around the edges, rather than have difficult discussions about what we want to fund and how that should be paid for.

From speaking to Australian doctor friends, it's nicer to work there, you generally get much quicker access to appointments and treatment, however it does cost the individual more than the NHS and it's also not perfect. Which seems to broadly be what my doctor friends in most other wealthy countries say about their respective systems.

If a Politician proposed a system where we need to pay more, that would generate a lot of negative headlines, even if the upshot was that people would get quicker care.

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld I know what you mean, but also… I had years of serious medical problems and way too many times I was fobbed off by doctors telling me things were probably fine and to relax and perhaps consider counselling. Why? Because the medical investigations I needed were expensive to the NHS. Already there is no separation between medical decisions and financial considerations.

I have an ill dog. The vet recommends state of the art treatments for him which I can choose to buy or not, but at least she tells me that they exist and how to access them. My doctors didn’t tell me about state of the art investigations because it’s NHS policy not to do the ones I needed. Because of the cost difference which was only about £200 and which I’d have been happy to pay myself to stop the pain!!

My own medical problems got worse and worse until I went private where some simple tests (that the NHS wouldn’t do for me because of cost) identified the problem. Ironically the problem was by then so major that I needed 3 expensive surgeries, which the private doctor did, but the NHS had to pay for. So their penny pinching on investigations ultimately cost them money anyway.

I don’t know what the answer is but it is not the NHS.

My friends and family in Australia find their system extremely difficult to navigate, and are generally very unhappy with it.

My uncle lived in Australia and lost their house paying for cancer treatment for my aunt who sadly died. No way want Australia healthcare. I've only heard bad things about it!

In NZ you pay an amount towards GP appointments (however these are still free if you are low income and also for children).

This "copay" system reduced wasted/unneeded appointments and meant less waiting for those in need, and appointments within days (or same day if urgent). Unlike here, I never found myself having to negotiate, beg or push to see a GP when really sick.

It's one NZ practice I'd strongly encourage the UK to adopt.

I never understand why people complain so much about the NHS. Try coming to Ireland and experience our health system , it's abysmal. The NHS is the one thing I miss about the UK. Took me 4 months to get a surgery on the NHS that I was referred for in Ireland 4 years ago. To this day I haven't even received an appointment to meet with a surgeon 🤣🤣

I am truly grateful to the NHS and I have had very good experiences for serious health issues in my family.

For those who are wanting it to be private and paid for service, how about getting private health?

Because the NHS is basically a secular religion and to even suggest that it might not be the best model for delivering healthcare is tantamount to blasphemy.

I have a friend who lives in Australia and has the same long term condition as me and Australian healthcare for it is shit and expensive because it's not fully covered and the out of pocket expenses for him are huge. It means that despite being fairly well off he hasn't always been able to continue treatment and relies on pain relief instead as the costs run into tens of thousands
In contrast I have a prepayment card which means my meds on the NHS cost me £108 max a year. I have never been without treatment in the 20yrs + I have had this disease although the pandemic did make it harder to access.
I think it's another system which may be better for acute illness but chronic illness isn't looked after as well.

@MatildaOfFlanders

Because the NHS is basically a secular religion and to even suggest that it might not be the best model for delivering healthcare is tantamount to blasphemy.

Try another country's system.

Metaphor is the first retreat those who have no points to argue.

From what I've read the German system seems pretty good.
Our GPs are gatekeepers to specialists and it can be hard to get referrals. They are also private companies who get the NHS budget.
Apparently in Germany you can refer yourself for physio or request a specialist, consultant appointment
If anyone here knows the system I would love to know how it is in practice
Our NHS is taken for granted but there is no political appetite for improvement because our government are only interested in privatised services. It is only public opinion that prevents a system like the US and who would want that?

To the posters who thinks finance isn’t factored into nhs decision making that’s ludicrous!!! Of course it is - and medical decisions are made on the basis of cost!!! Australian system
Is not perfect obviously but I think it’s better than the nhs system.