In wondering why UK can't adopt the Australian Healthcare system?

[chopc]

I was talking to some friends abroad and in Australia about frustrations with our wonderful
NHS for both patient and doctor. One of them wondered why we can't adopt the Australian Healthcare system. I thought the same and checked with those using it in Australia, and I can't see any downsides to it ........

What is stopping the UK adopting the same system?

@echt

Lol if Australia and NZ had a system like the UK NHS, or Canada or even the flawed ones in India they would have been able to vaccinate their relatively tiny populations

The vaccination debacle in Australia has nothing to do with the health systems.

How can it not? They don’t have centralised purchasing which the NHS does...how they go about ordering millions of Covid vaccines IS part of their Heath system.

@echt

Lol if Australia and NZ had a system like the UK NHS, or Canada or even the flawed ones in India they would have been able to vaccinate their relatively tiny populations

The vaccination debacle in Australia has nothing to do with the health systems.

Of course it does. They have no central purchasing system. It’s why Australians pay more for certain other health services too, and why basic things like lack of ambulances / health education still result in preventable deaths out in the sticks.

@PlanDeRaccordement

No thanks would I want Australian system. They completely botched their Covid vaccination program. It is more expensive per capita than the NHS for no better outcomes.

Yes

How can it not? They don’t have centralised purchasing which the NHS does...how they go about ordering millions of Covid vaccines IS part of their Heath system

They do. The vaccines roll-out is federal. Fucked. Too little and very late.

theconversation.com/australia-has-not-learned-the-lessons-of-its-bungled-covid-vaccine-rollout-163481

The management of the pandemic is state-managed. Doing well until Gladys pissed all over us.

This is why it's not down to private/public health systems, which is what this thread is about.

You have to pay for a LOT in Australia. You may be partially refunded but often have to shell out in the first instance. The British public scream bloody murder at the hint of the NHS reducing services or at requiring people to pay. Until the British public accept reality, then we will be stuck with our crumbling system until it all collapses.

I can’t think of anything that you have to pay for here, in the health system that you get for free in the U.K.

There are things you can choose to pay for of course but nothing you’re forced to. It’s not like the USA.

@Ozgirl75

I can’t think of anything that you have to pay for here, in the health system that you get for free in the U.K. There are things you can choose to pay for of course but nothing you’re forced to. It’s not like the USA.

You're sort of leaving out the tax issues for those who don't take out private insurance above certain incomes.

And the ambulance costs.

And the out of pocket costs with insurance.

@echt
That’s kind of my point? Usually purchasing is done by the states and territories by the health department of each one. The Australian federal government usually only provides some funds and regulates. The states are responsive for purchasing and services delivery.

Therefore, the federal government did not know what it was doing because they don’t normally have centralised purchasing or control service delivery at national level, like the NHS does.
www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/f2ae1191-bbf2-47b6-a9d4-1b2ca65553a1/ah16-2-1-how-does-australias-health-system-work.pdf.aspx

@Ozgirl75

I can’t think of anything that you have to pay for here, in the health system that you get for free in the U.K. There are things you can choose to pay for of course but nothing you’re forced to. It’s not like the USA.

If that’s really the case then why do so many expats return from Australia to the UK when they get medical problems? You need to pay for a lot out there upfront & even after a partial claim as you get older you could easily sink thousands of dollars a year (at least).

This is why it's not down to private/public health systems, which is what this thread is about.

I thought this thread was about NHS vs Australia’s system? If it’s more general private/public then shouldn’t we be discussing other countries as well?

@echt

WRT the referral, if it is going to be an ongoing situation with the specialist, ask for a permanent referral. We've got these for all our specialists

I was specifically warned against this by the lovely desk folk who said it worked out more expensive in terms of tax.

I wasn’t aware that having an indefinite referral would have tax implications. That’s interesting. Is it only for referrals into the public system that would have that consequence or private aswell.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@echt
That’s kind of my point? Usually purchasing is done by the states and territories by the health department of each one. The Australian federal government usually only provides some funds and regulates. The states are responsive for purchasing and services delivery.

Therefore, the federal government did not know what it was doing because they don’t normally have centralised purchasing or control service delivery at national level, like the NHS does.
www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/f2ae1191-bbf2-47b6-a9d4-1b2ca65553a1/ah16-2-1-how-does-australias-health-system-work.pdf.aspx[/quote]
Vaccines = federal. Nothing to do with states and territories. The latter had no choice.

This has not prevented federal government, i.e, Scott Morrison ( the prime minister) from now handballing it to the states.

@PlanDeRaccordement

This is why it's not down to private/public health systems, which is what this thread is about.

I thought this thread was about NHS vs Australia’s system? If it’s more general private/public then shouldn’t we be discussing other countries as well?

I was attempting to get this back on track , and assumed the thread's title in my point.

I honestly have no idea. As I say, I’ve lived here for 14 years and the only health things I’ve paid for are giving birth (which I chose to do privately) and yes I pay a proportion of dental and optical (contact lenses) but I had to pay for the whole lot when I lived in the U.K.

Granted I’ve never had a serious illness out here but I do know people who have and they all get great care, in the public system.

@Ozanj what kind of things? I’m asking genuinely as I don’t know many older people over here. Like hip operations and that kind of thing?

Since Australia won't let anyone move there with a long term condition like Down Syndrome then it's not exactly a shining example of inclusion.

@Ozgirl75

I honestly have no idea. As I say, I’ve lived here for 14 years and the only health things I’ve paid for are giving birth (which I chose to do privately) and yes I pay a proportion of dental and optical (contact lenses) but I had to pay for the whole lot when I lived in the U.K. Granted I’ve never had a serious illness out here but I do know people who have and they all get great care, in the public system.

You can give birth for nothing in the UK.

You can give birth for nothing here too. I just chose to go private for a few reasons.

I lived in Australia for five years and whilst I never fully understood their healthcare system, I certainly found it much easier to access health care over there. In particular I liked that I did not have to run the gauntlet of getting to see a GP and then getting a referral on. In comparison, I feel like the way the NHS operates is to make it very difficult to access healthcare.

Here I prepare myself for battle whenever I want to see a GP, it usually involves being on hold forever and then a three week wait for an appointment. In Australia, I just walked into a convenient doctors surgery, need bloods, walk to the end of the corridor and have bloods taken there and then. Make small payment.

I made a small payment as I was a working person. There are options for those that cannot pay, but the partial payment for the majority at the point of service appears to make everything run so much smoother.

All I know about the Australian system is that if you have any chronic or permanent health conditions that require regular treatment or medication it's very costly.

No healthcare system is perfect. My family have had nothing but really good experiences with the NHS, even recently when things are challenging to say the least.

I know you’re talking about Australia, but the health systems of other countries are not necessarily better.

For instance, medical costs are the number 1 cause of bankruptcy in the US. You shouldn’t have to choose between your home or your medical expenses.

@drspouse

Since Australia won't let anyone move there with a long term condition like Down Syndrome then it's not exactly a shining example of inclusion.

That’s pretty shocking! What if it’s the child of two people are are moving there? Are they not allowed to in those circumstances?

@Aprilx

I lived in Australia for five years and whilst I never fully understood their healthcare system, I certainly found it much easier to access health care over there. In particular I liked that I did not have to run the gauntlet of getting to see a GP and then getting a referral on. In comparison, I feel like the way the NHS operates is to make it very difficult to access healthcare.

Here I prepare myself for battle whenever I want to see a GP, it usually involves being on hold forever and then a three week wait for an appointment. In Australia, I just walked into a convenient doctors surgery, need bloods, walk to the end of the corridor and have bloods taken there and then. Make small payment.

I made a small payment as I was a working person. There are options for those that cannot pay, but the partial payment for the majority at the point of service appears to make everything run so much smoother.

I don’t understand this point of view as we’ve had lots of medical issues in my family in the last 10 years or so - never any issues making GP appointments or getting referrals or getting seen quickly.

I made a GP appointment this week and was seen in less than 24 hours.

The NHS really isn’t the envy of the world. It’s free and people abuse it calling for ambulances because ‘they have paid their taxes’.

It needs a massive overhaul but no one is brave enough.

It might make people appreciate it more if it wasn't 'free'

I agree. There would be less wasted appointments if there was a charge, less going for things they can buy over the counter etc.

I’m in favour of small charges to visit the doctor or hospital, fees for prescriptions for all (keeping the pre paid certification for those needing multiple ones) and scraping the free calpol etc from chemists.