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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I know I am probably BU but

106 replies

beinglikedisoverrated · 03/09/2021 20:08

Cost at moment to charge an Electric car overnight for 1 year us in excess of 3k. News today says fuel prices are going to hike. And, what happens to all the used electric batteries. Landfill? Aibu to love and want to keep my 'dirty diesel'? Ironically, diesel was supposed to be the ' cleaner fuel'.

OP posts:
TheVolturi · 04/09/2021 15:42

Some chargers can charge in 20 mins. Would you really do a 5 hr journey without stopping anyway? My car has a lower mileage range than a lot of others, dh has one that does almost 350 miles on a charge. In the future it will be far more. If the amazon driver is only getting 70 miles they must be driving an older first generation ev, a lot only did 80 miles on a charge when new.
I did a 200 mile trip last week and the kids needed the loo on the way home, plugged in at the services for the ten mins that it took them all to have a pee, it gave me another 50 miles and cost £3. Wasn't exactly a hardship.
I don't understand why people have to be so snippy about it.

Youcanchangeyournamebut · 04/09/2021 15:48

If you're so concerned about the environment,why are you driving 150 miles a day Confused

ithinkilikeit · 04/09/2021 15:51

Most people don’t drive 150miles a day so would not spend any where near that on charging. There is your answer.

NotMyCat · 04/09/2021 16:03

I'm on the "fine for other people but won't work for everyone"
I can't have a charge point, and neither can any of my neighbours as we are in an apartment with allocated parking, and my parking space is nowhere near where I live
How are people with on street parking going to charge?
Blocks of flats with car parks?

TheVolturi · 04/09/2021 16:11

I agree with you @notmycat, I can't see how it will work for everyone. I have said before, in the future, if ev is to totally replace fuelled engines, every parking space at services will need to have a charger. It's coming but not fast enough.
I had my first ev in 2016 and there were very limited chargers around here. Now they are at 3 of our local supermarkets, on street in town and other places as well, but there don't seem to be any extra at services.

Selkiesarereal · 04/09/2021 18:20

Op, whilst I am no conspiracy theorist but clearly am the resident nutter 🤪 somehow offending ev drivers all I am saying is that you can research into the battery a little more.

The mining of cobalt is causing huge devastation in the DCR as it is so valuable that wars are carried out to gain access to these mines.

There are some companies that are better at knowing their supply chain than others but all will admit it is difficult.

If you are buying an ev ask about the battery and if it does contain cobalt what assurances can they give that it has been ethically mined as by consumers asking these questions can help to secure change.

When I was looking into an ev car bmw came out better but this was a few years ago and things change.

To all those who think I’m mad I think that you should really take a look at yourselves and why you feel the need to attack someone who raises concerns over the mining of these materials, surely it’s in everyone’s interest to try to do what little we can to help the not just our own environment but those countries where we source the materials?

NotMyCat · 04/09/2021 18:24

@TheVolturi

I agree with you *@notmycat*, I can't see how it will work for everyone. I have said before, in the future, if ev is to totally replace fuelled engines, every parking space at services will need to have a charger. It's coming but not fast enough. I had my first ev in 2016 and there were very limited chargers around here. Now they are at 3 of our local supermarkets, on street in town and other places as well, but there don't seem to be any extra at services.
Also they will get damaged I think. I live in an area where they would get ripped out or set on fire or.. and who pays for the replacements? I would be raging if I got one and it was damaged! My parking space is just a space, there's nowhere to put a charger as I don't own the land around it, just the space (there's a fence in front of it, a car to the left and a garden which isn't mine to the right)
LilyTheMink · 04/09/2021 18:31

Batteries have state of health (SOH) measurement which starts off at 100%. But it can be affected and degraded quickly or slowly by a number of things.
Manufacturers don't always have control of this and I would definitely looks closely into any small print from them.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 04/09/2021 19:28

But 200k miles, you don't see many cars on the road still running well that have done that? Isn't 10k miles a year about average anyway, so 200k miles would be 20 years.

There are plenty. A lot of reps/taxis/long-distance commuters will cover that in 5 years or less - a well-made, well-maintained car won't be fit for scrap after that short time, regardless of mileage. In fact, it ought to be 'a thing' that, in such a case (new-ish car that's done loads of miles), you could eventually get a replacement engine - but nobody ever seems to consider that an option nowadays, as it isn't worth it financially. I wonder if batteries for EVs will take the place of engines in that scenario - where the 'accepted' lifetime of a car is as long as a battery lasts.

Ev cars do not use any battery sat in traffic. I sat in mine outside school yesterday with it on, with my phone plugged in it charging while I watched a movie on my phone, it didn't use any battery %.

That's good to know, at least.

Ours is 8.5 years old and no degradation in the battery capacity so far. Also never had a glitch or been let down.

That's a good start, but we've never owned a car that's been less than 8 years old, so we may be going from different points of expectation!

If the amazon driver is only getting 70 miles they must be driving an older first generation ev

Or maybe you just get significantly fewer miles for a larger/heavier/laden vehicle that drives through a built-up area and frequently stops and starts? I wonder how it works for really heavy vehicles? Does anybody know how feasible it is to power a 44-ton artic on a battery, and what kind of range you get?

Incidentally, does anybody have any experience of towing with EVs? How do they fare with an average-sized family caravan, and how much does the towed weight reduce your range by?

Batteries have state of health (SOH) measurement which starts off at 100%. But it can be affected and degraded quickly or slowly by a number of things.

The problem with that, though (if phones are anything to go by), is that you can't always rely on them to remain accurate. A new, fully-functioning battery will accurately 'report' and show its SOH, but a worn/glitchy one might not remain reliable - because of those glitches!

My phone (from 2017, on its second battery) will show 30% and then suddenly power off, as it's actually empty. I can also leave it plugged in, connected and supposedly charging overnight and it just doesn't bother to take any charge at all, as I discover the next morning.

Frustrating enough when you can't communicate, but I wouldn't be happy if I were driving through the Highlands with a caravan, expecting to look for a charger point within the next hour or so and then suddenly grinding to a halt. It would scare me and make me a bit fearful every time I travelled, actually.

Unless you have a severe fuel tank leak (which doesn't normally happen without warning), a third of a tank of petrol or diesel cannot simply disappear. Even if your fuel gauge is duff (like mine on an old car was for years), you can still make a note of when you last fuelled and rely on a constant usage rate, within a safe buffer zone.

With my phone, I now treat it as a bonus when it does work and expect it not to be available. I'm hoping to get a new one soon, when I can afford it, but a phone costs a tiny fraction of what a car does - and I'm not willing to plan long journeys and holidays based on a high likelihood of failure.

Clearbloo · 04/09/2021 20:21

I have an EV, which at 100% will do around 100 miles, I have no off street parking. I charge 1 or 2 times a week on the go in local High Street supermarkets for free, 2 hours will give me 25ish miles as a top up. Then maybe I would do 1 or 2 rapid charges which can take me from 20 miles to 100 miles in around half an hour which costs me £4/£5. Plus my membership which is £8 a month. So my cost is per month is normally around £30/£40. No tax costs, insurance is the same, environmental benefits. Also, importantly, something that hasn't really been mentioned otherwise is its the best car I have ever driven, smooth, comfortable. And you can pre heat it in the winter (or cool in the summer!) So when you get in you just drive off straight away, no defrosting windows in the cold and being freezing. One of the best descions I've made although not for everyone!

VanGoSunflowers · 04/09/2021 20:27

What I would like to know is, is it really more environmentally friendly to by a brand new electric car than it is to just run your current car in to the ground, trying to use it as little as possible?

The carbon footprint of creating the actual electric car must be fairly high? Vs that of just driving my second hand corsa until it dies?

If I am wrong then I will shut up Smile

TheVolturi · 04/09/2021 20:31

@Selkiesarereal

Op, whilst I am no conspiracy theorist but clearly am the resident nutter 🤪 somehow offending ev drivers all I am saying is that you can research into the battery a little more.

The mining of cobalt is causing huge devastation in the DCR as it is so valuable that wars are carried out to gain access to these mines.

There are some companies that are better at knowing their supply chain than others but all will admit it is difficult.

If you are buying an ev ask about the battery and if it does contain cobalt what assurances can they give that it has been ethically mined as by consumers asking these questions can help to secure change.

When I was looking into an ev car bmw came out better but this was a few years ago and things change.

To all those who think I’m mad I think that you should really take a look at yourselves and why you feel the need to attack someone who raises concerns over the mining of these materials, surely it’s in everyone’s interest to try to do what little we can to help the not just our own environment but those countries where we source the materials?

But you are either typing on a phone or a laptop and both use the same in the battery so you are a hypocrite no?
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 04/09/2021 21:25

I have an EV, which at 100% will do around 100 miles, I have no off street parking. I charge 1 or 2 times a week on the go in local High Street supermarkets for free, 2 hours will give me 25ish miles as a top up. Then maybe I would do 1 or 2 rapid charges which can take me from 20 miles to 100 miles in around half an hour which costs me £4/£5. Plus my membership which is £8 a month. So my cost is per month is normally around £30/£40. No tax costs, insurance is the same, environmental benefits.

I'm glad it works well for you, but that just sounds like such a faff to me. I'd much rather spend 5 minutes filling the tank with petrol (£70-80) and then know we should be sorted for a month, unless we're going on any unusually long journeys. Gaining a top-up of 25 miles doesn't sound that much to me, especially as our 'refuel now' bong comes on when we still have enough for getting on for twice that left in the tank.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 04/09/2021 21:29

But you are either typing on a phone or a laptop and both use the same in the battery so you are a hypocrite no?

That is a fair point, but we don't really have a viable alternative to batteries for phones and laptops, in the way we do for cars (petrol and diesel). I realise that, from an environmental perspective, many people will say that petrol and diesel aren't viable.

Also, not saying it makes it all OK, but if there's a sliver of a dangerous/toxic/exploitatively obtained substance in a phone battery, there must be a shovel-load of it when scaled up to a battery that can power a car.

SirusTheVirus · 04/09/2021 21:36

Have you decided to to come back OP now it has being pointed out that you’re shit as maths 🤷🏼‍♀️

Selkiesarereal · 04/09/2021 21:39

Seriously @TheVolturi stop making an arse of yourself. All I have done is say that ev car batteries are not without problems not actually criticised people who have got one.

This area is a minefield and all I am saying is that we as consumers can advocate for change.

Today you have called me a david ike conspirator but on your next post knew the issues with cobalt when I pointed out to my source on child rape.

I am using a very old iPhone that is so old it is about to become unsupported. The last time I looked, again, a few years ago, iPhone came out better but not perfect and again I am not having a go at people who have an ev as supply chains are notoriously difficult to secure.

There is no easy answer but we shouldn’t turn a blind eye. Again I wonder why you are so upset at me pointing out the plight of those in the DRC who are directly impacted by this, why keep attacking me, it’s so bizarre.

SirusTheVirus · 04/09/2021 21:48

@SirusTheVirus

Have you decided to to come back OP now it has being pointed out that you’re shit as maths 🤷🏼‍♀️
Not to come back*
KingdomScrolls · 04/09/2021 21:50

Electric vehicles are fine if you have a private drive, the funds to buy a new car not a ten year old one and do very little mileage, meanwhile those earning less will have their petrol prices raised through the roof, plus additional NI for social care (not applicable to most pensioners who also had the benefit of buying a house for a fiver that's not work half a million). If you work in the public sector you're also facing yet another payfreeze. I've had one non promotion related raise (2%) in twelve years. Utilities are ever increasing, and even food shopping is getting more and more expensive. Those on low to moderate incomes are again being shafted.

beinglikedisoverrated · 04/09/2021 22:03

All this thread has proved is that most of you are more interested in engaging ad hominem attacks rather than having an intelligent debate on the topic.
I suppose I should know better than to expect anything better from 90% of the people on this site.

OP posts:
SirusTheVirus · 04/09/2021 22:19

@beinglikedisoverrated

All this thread has proved is that most of you are more interested in engaging ad hominem attacks rather than having an intelligent debate on the topic. I suppose I should know better than to expect anything better from 90% of the people on this site.
Intelligent debate can only come from factual information.

Your OP doesn’t fit that brief!

icedcoffees · 04/09/2021 22:28

Threads about electric cars always end the same way.

If you say anything negative about them at all, you get jumped on lol.

Emmelina · 04/09/2021 23:27

I have a first generation Zoe. It’s almost 6 years old and its battery at last service was still reading at 98% health, so it’ll be going for rather a long time yet!
I cannot charge at home. Instead I leave it at a slowish charger in a long stay car park by my work, for which I have a parking permit. The chargers are run by BP Pulse, to whom I pay £7-something a month to charge as often as I like.
The batteries are usually repurposed unless damaged in an accident (in which case they are broken down safely and the components repurposed or recycled). Many batteries are used as storage for extra power in the grid or to power things with a lower draw.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 04/09/2021 23:41

I cannot charge at home. Instead I leave it at a slowish charger in a long stay car park by my work, for which I have a parking permit. The chargers are run by BP Pulse, to whom I pay £7-something a month to charge as often as I like.

But doesn't that mean you then can't drive home from work and have to find an alternative means of transport - unless you live very close anyway - one of the key reasons that most people own/use a car?

Emmelina · 04/09/2021 23:51

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

I cannot charge at home. Instead I leave it at a slowish charger in a long stay car park by my work, for which I have a parking permit. The chargers are run by BP Pulse, to whom I pay £7-something a month to charge as often as I like.

But doesn't that mean you then can't drive home from work and have to find an alternative means of transport - unless you live very close anyway - one of the key reasons that most people own/use a car?

No. I plug it in, then walk across the road to my place of work. Then at the end of the day I walk back across, unplug, and leave with a full batteryGrin
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 05/09/2021 01:54

No. I plug it in, then walk across the road to my place of work. Then at the end of the day I walk back across, unplug, and leave with a full battery

Thank you for explaining that in simple terms - what a doughnut for not realising that that's what you meant Grin