To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

[shouldbeworkingmore]

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

[quote CayrolBaaaskin]@PinkSparklyPussyCat - if only one person needs care you could put a charge on their half of the home. It’s not difficult. Why should some very poor people pay extra tax so some (likely very wealthy people) can inherit more?[/quote]
Where did I say poor people should pay more tax? I was asking a question! If DH has to go into a home I don’t fancy being out on the street to facilitate it!

@woodhill

I'm surprised at that

Is that if they are bed bound etc like a home help and won't it be minimal?

It’s whatever the agency chooses. It costs around £15 an hour. A lot of people need four visits a day and that obviously doesn’t cover shopping, cooking, laundry or cleaning.

Copied from Twitter:

National Insurance rates are 12% on weekly earnings of between £162 and £892, and 2% on weekly earnings above £892. And only paid if you are an employee. It's a tax on poor people with a job that rich people don't pay, which is why the Tories want to increase it by 2%.

[quote XingMing]@Bucanab, lovely statement... I turned 65 about three weeks ago and DH and I have three living parents. To which termination centre should we direct the minibus? Are you planning on gassing us, or peaceful euthanasia? Daft, stupid, imbecile post.[/quote]
I'm usually a big fan of your posts but you've dropped the ball on this one - she was clearly being sarcastic!

@flashbac

Copied from Twitter:

National Insurance rates are 12% on weekly earnings of between £162 and £892, and 2% on weekly earnings above £892. And only paid if you are an employee. It's a tax on poor people with a job that rich people don't pay, which is why the Tories want to increase it by 2%.

The poor have a job, the rich have assets :)

*job(s)

The billions of pounds borrowed for this pandemic which has been wasted could of funded the social care meaning we wouldn't have to be taxed more

I think it unfairly discriminates against the younger generations and women. As an example I'm currently pregnant with our second child. After childcare costs for two and travel I will take home less than £100 a month. This is despite being lucky enough to hold a comparatively good job. If you add a 2% tax in this scenario this almost entirely wipes out this margin. Women want to stay in the work force, but with high taxes and high childcare costs families are forced to make far from ideal decisions.

I am not against the current means tested approach. My Grandma recently died after needing care at home for years. She was lucky to have savings, which were used for the care. This significantly reduced the inheritance for her children, but ultimately it was her money for her life.

@flashbac

Copied from Twitter:

National Insurance rates are 12% on weekly earnings of between £162 and £892, and 2% on weekly earnings above £892. And only paid if you are an employee. It's a tax on poor people with a job that rich people don't pay, which is why the Tories want to increase it by 2%.

You are mistaken - Employers pay NI contributions too and the Giv are proposing an 1% rise - no income limits, we just had a sizable rise on corporation tax last year too.

I think it would be fairer if those over retirement age still in paid employment also continued to pay NI. As people get older they are more likely to need NHS and Social Care. I think £50k cap on assets would be fairer for all. Those in North have less value on their houses with some not even valued at £80k.

I'm not sure but someone has to pay for it. Having a disabled child really opened my eyes to how bad the situation is. It's all fine until one your on your knees and there is no help and there never will be any coming.

@IncessantNameChanger

I'm not sure but someone has to pay for it. Having a disabled child really opened my eyes to how bad the situation is. It's all fine until one your on your knees and there is no help and there never will be any coming.

There will never be any coming no matter how much we all pay. Which is why I give as much as possible to charity (and directly support people I know who need it), but I don't trust the government to not steal anything I pay as tax. Believe it or not I was once upon a time proud and happy to be a tax paying citizen of Britain as an immigrant Until I realise just how much was wasted and how little people in need actually got

Also to add@IncessantNameChanger I'm sorry if that post sounded rude!
What I meant to say was that money etc while we need to pay - it still needs to be allocated to where its really needed. Lots of money for endless project managers etc in the NHS leading 'transformation' projects that go way over budget for no discernible reason. No money for disability services or similar.

www.theregister.com/2021/08/13/mckinsey_awarded_3m_8_week_contract/

prime example

On a personal level, I’m happy to pay a bit more each month for a properly funded healthcare system.

Would like to see a fair system though which doesn’t see less well paid people being pushed into financial difficulties.

Wages need to be higher. NMW needs to be higher. If everyone needs to do their bit, then that includes employers paying their people properly.

So you'd rather the house goes than pay a few hundred quid a year?
I’m sure the people who will inherit a house would rather pay a few hundred quid a year. But there are a LOT of people who won’t inherit a house but still have to pay a few hundred quid. It’s basically taking money from the poor to give to the rich.

Unfortunately social care, health care etc is a giant black hole, which will absorb any additional funding quickly. I think a lot of money is wasted and needs to be more tightly monitored to ensure value for money. Having lived in a block of flats where I was the only private tenant and the rest were pulling a variety of scams to ensure they continued to benefit from the largesse of the taxpayers, I have my doubts that any increase will be well spent.

I think asking for more money from people on lower wages is unfair. When I was still in the UK, I was paying out 60% of my take home wage for a shit flat in London. There just was not too much more I could have absorbed as a single person and somehow managed to save for my future.

One problem is you make it available free for everyone many more people will expect carers and to live in a care home. Whereas they muddle along now. Families would step back.

@Stircraazy

One problem is you make it available free for everyone many more people will expect carers and to live in a care home. Whereas they muddle along now. Families would step back.

Worst argument possible. If people need care they shouldn’t have to “muddle along”.

@Bucanab, lovely statement... I turned 65 about three weeks ago and DH and I have three living parents. To which termination centre should we direct the minibus? Are you planning on gassing us, or peaceful euthanasia? Daft, stupid, imbecile post.

@XingMing Oh god no! Have you seen the price of barbiturates? And using gas would just be a waste of natural resources. I was just going to push you all into a big hole and cover it up again*.

No, I am not being serious*.

**Seriously though overpopulation will be addressed either directly by us, or by nature. I doubt anyone will ever seriously propose a cull of humans, like we do with another species that is overpopulated, and so it will be left to nature to sort. Unfortunately, this will likely mean mass famine, pestilence and infant mortality. The big hole not looking so bad now is it??

@PinkSparklyPussyCat yoh wouldn’t be. The home cannot be touched if it’s still lived in by the spouse or civil partner or a dependent child

I think one of the things that makes discussing this issue so difficult is that most people aren’t aware of what the rules are now & what assets can & cannot be used

Bold fails galore

People with degenerative illnesses or simply frailty through old age 'will' pay for care if they need it (as they should). Dementia or not.
The £23.5k threshold for full self funding should be lowered for a start. Not sure why someone with that amount of money should be subsidised. Halve it.

Increasing VAT by 1% would raise a lot more and allow us to increase NHS funding too while spreading the burden out.

@shouldbeworkingmore

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

The labour market is on fire - wage increases are very likely - what leads you to believe wage stagnation into the next decade is very likely?