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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

998 replies

shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 09:39

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

OP posts:
Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 12:23

As a young person I'd rather pay extra into social care now so that I can rest assured that the elderly in my family are being taken care of if they need to be, instead of me having to stop my life to care for them fully.

Unfortunately I don't think the proposed increase will reduce that possibility.

OP posts:
SinisterBumFacedCat · 03/09/2021 12:24

That’s not as a young person that’s as a person who doesn’t want to look after their family- I have no elderly relatives, why should I pay in that case?

I hate to break it to you, but age happens to us all (or at least the lucky ones).

user1497207191 · 03/09/2021 12:24

@Coogee

Younger working people have always paid for the elderly.

Why should today’s younger people be any different?

Because they're already suffering deductions from their wages that the elderly didn't suffer. I.e. workplace pensions, student loan repayments, claw back of child benefit, etc. Wages deductions are just getting higher and higher.

How about other people contribute? I.e. pensioners, those living on investment income (rentals, dividends, foreign income etc)., whose incomes are currently exempt for NIC?

We should either scrap NIC and increase income tax, or make ALL income sources liable for NIC. We really can't have this anomaly of only workers on payrolls being liable for NIC.

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 03/09/2021 12:25

@SinisterBumFacedCat

That’s not as a young person that’s as a person who doesn’t want to look after their family- I have no elderly relatives, why should I pay in that case?

I hate to break it to you, but age happens to us all (or at least the lucky ones).

Yes and I’ll sell my assets to fund it
Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 12:28

How about other people contribute? I.e. pensioners, those living on investment income (rentals, dividends, foreign income etc)., whose incomes are currently exempt for NIC?

We should either scrap NIC and increase income tax, or make ALL income sources liable for NIC. We really can't have this anomaly of only workers on payrolls being liable for NIC.

Exactly!

OP posts:
DomPom47 · 03/09/2021 12:28

I don’t mind the rise my issue is the quality of care.

fromdownwest · 03/09/2021 12:29

@CorrBlimeyGG

I agree, it would be more fair to increase income tax, or preferably, put a tax on wealth (not including your primary residence).
Explain what a tax on Wealth would be? Would it be a charge of 55% on pensions above the lifetime allowance or 40% of your estate on death or 28% of gains on your investments on sale or how about 45% of your income or a 60% marginal tax rate above £100k?

I don't think people realise how much tax the wealthy actually pay into the pot.

I am not talking Amazon here.

Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 12:37

Just looked at the Daily Mail & it's not going down well there.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/09/2021 12:37

I do not trust the government to manage our contributions fairly or wisely but that's nothing new

It might not be new, but actually I think it has a lot to do with the discussion
Granted you'll always get selfish people who's basic answer to who should pay is "someone else", but if there was any real confidence in how our money's spent I hope there'd be fewer who'd mind chipping in more

Then again, if it wasn't for cronyism, incompetence and outright corruption, there wouldn't be so much of a shortfall to make up ...

Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 12:39

I agree re the trust issue, you can't believe anything they say or do.

OP posts:
InthearmyN0W21 · 03/09/2021 12:40

www.ons.gov.uk/

Look at the stats, over time people are living longer, due to better; housing, education, sanitation, food, benefits, medecine

You can also search for stats of how many people are over 100 in Japan over time

People are living with more complicated & multiple medical issues

I am happy to pay extra

Some of my friends & colleagues have had to give up their jobs to care for their relatives, it is 24×7×365 with little outside help

DynamoKev · 03/09/2021 12:42

It's not political along party lines. Labour increased NIC twice, and since they don't get the core Pensioner vote, they didn't do it to protect pensioners.
Good point - although I think that in any case the "pensioners vote Tory" claim is overstated.
I wonder if the plan is to slip something onto employer's NI too - so "hiding" the size of the increase?

Franklin12 · 03/09/2021 12:43

Something needed to be done. I also think that the older population should pay something along with a review of the triple lock. My parents generation didnt always work the sorts of hours we are now and going on well into their 60's - especially women so they havent necessarily paid in very much at all.

It shouldnt just be the younger people who have to pay this. We are all living longer and longer.

Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 12:44

Is it even enough money though?

By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over, 6.8% will be aged 75+ and 3.2% will be aged 85+ (ONS, 2017b).
• The 85+ age group is the fastest growing and is set to double to 3.2 million by mid-2041 and treble by 2066 (5.1 million; 7% of the UK population) (ONS, 2018k).

OP posts:
tenredthings · 03/09/2021 12:46

The Tories are privatizing social care and any funds raised will go into the pockets of private companies. There's a lot of American and overseas investment already in the care system. When it's for profit then you can be sure that the tax payer and the users who will lose out.

fromdownwest · 03/09/2021 12:47

Reduced workplace pension benefits coupled with forever extending basic state pension ages is moving towards mass pension poverty.

The current generation are benefiting from Final Salary Schemes and BSP at mid 60's.

The current generation will be working for longer for less. So to ask them to carry the burden for later life care is unfair. This proposal is dividing the bill across the table equally.

A young person on low salary will pay but a six figure pension income will not face any increase?

fromdownwest · 03/09/2021 12:48

The current generation of pensiononers are benefiting from Final Salary Schemes and BSP at mid 60's.

PearlclutchersInc · 03/09/2021 12:48

* Where do you think the money should come from then ?

everyone*

Everyone who has an income and pays NI will be hit by it.

Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 12:49

A young person on low salary will pay but a six figure pension income will not face any increase?

I don't understand how people can argue that's fare plus it's likely the worker is paying higher living costs.

OP posts:
fromdownwest · 03/09/2021 12:49

@PearlclutchersInc

* Where do you think the money should come from then ?

everyone*

Everyone who has an income and pays NI will be hit by it.

But it is not averyone is it. People will have pension income and won't pay it.
Original poster
shouldbeworkingmore · 03/09/2021 12:50

@PearlclutchersInc

Everyone who has an income and pays NI will be hit by it.

Yes hence my op

OP posts:
princeofpersian · 03/09/2021 12:53

A lot of people who are taking and have taken out of the pot more than they put in, saying how those who are already funding their lifestyle choices should pay more money.

Don't talk to me about how the Tories keep taxes low. The Tories have piled tax increase after tax increase on working people while never taxing unearned wealth. NI is not paid on rental income or dividend income, only on income from work. So the rentier class will not pay a penny of the NI increase, only those who actually generate economic growth. It's sickening. People should not tolerate this.

DottyHarmer · 03/09/2021 12:54

We are heading towards economic disaster with the elderly. Of course a person’s health needs soar as they age, whether that be a dodgy knee or severe dementia. People can be preserved for years with no quality of life - the Hippocratic oath is not fit for purpose in the face of medical advances. Additionally, in the case of fil, he was drawing a pension for 36 years, plus his old age pension for 31 years.

It would take a Solomon to solve it. If people are made to pay for care, they will make sure they spend/get rid of their assets, and if it is free it will bankrupt the country.

SofiaMichelle · 03/09/2021 12:55

This is going to be very costly for a lot of people, not just 'the young'.

It's an extra 1% on everything over £9,500.

So someone on £109,500 I'll pay an extra £1,000 per year.

That's not insignificant.

Marieg10 · 03/09/2021 12:55

So currently my son is working and is getting taxed as follows:
20% tax
12% insurance
9% pension
9% student loan repayment

So after his tax free allowance, he is paying a total of 50% in tax or pension. Why on earth should that increase to 51% with an increase in NI. Taxation is already ridiculous and at highest historic levels