To think the proposed NI increases for social care are unfair?

[shouldbeworkingmore]

I recognise that social care needs funding but think that this proposal unfairly targets the younger generations. Plus we already have income taxes by stealth as the thresh holds have been frozen & wage stagnation is likely to continue for the next decade.

@CuriousaboutSamphire why do you think NI increases are the fairest method?

[quote JaneKing75]@DynamoKev That's what we walk past every day on our way to work. It's sickening and nothing to do with ageism, I'm quite old myself. But the property met their needs at one point and doesn't now. The most obvious thing to do is release the property back into the pool for those who need it. They'll make a substantial sum of profit so I don't see the problem myself.[/quote]
Social cleansing - nice attitude.

I think it should be attached to people's houses for those who are retired. Many people who are retired have houses worth 100,000s which they probably bought for 10,000s. They haven't earned this money, it has been caused by a housing boom! And keep the tie in of 7-10 years from house sale/ transfer of deeds to needing social care.

I agree we also need the extra NI contributions, but I also know by the time I get to retirement there will be no state pension.

Throwing more money at social care won't work. It's a bottomless pit. Societies' response to social care and our ability (both collectively and individually) to influence our health and our choices needs to change.

[quote TractorAndHeadphones]@MatildaIThink (can’t quote) these days the bulk of council tax goes on social care. It’s not just about emptying bins.
Mine rises by a significant percentage ever year for the ‘adult social care precept’.
Galling but short of moving into a smaller house elsewhere what can I do 😂[/quote]
This is why I find it bizarre it's based on a house value. I live alone and so pay more for services such as adult social care, than people who all live together in a house. Doesn't seem fair to me!

I think those stats will be dramatically different in 12 months time.
If you've not had a payrise in 5 years as I know many haven't now is a good time to be job hunting and start demanding a wage you can live on. The shoes is firmly on your foot right now.
There are no such shoes on my foot. I am lucky I managed to get a job after the effects of the recent IR35 changes and Covid forced me to close my small business. I am earning almost my 2008 Salary but the chances of a big rise or a job change are minimal. I work (and have for most of career ) in IT. I am far from alone. You are operating in your own anecdotal bubble - so have a look at mine (and 1000s of others).

@JaneKing75

I don't know if that's true, I left home at 16, worked in a call centre at night and went to university in 1994. I wasn't the only one at all. Very few on my course had parents chipping in for anything at all

You’re talking about 1994, I’m talking about 1972. They’re not comparable. Different times, different experiences.

@PattyPanStudent repayment loans aren't a tax; they're an investment in your future.

Pre student loans, I funded my studies by working multiple jobs over a period of seven years (on which I paid income tax at 29%), bank loans at commercial (not special student rates of interest) repayable at a fixed rate (not what I could afford or a percentage of my earnings above a protected amount) at a specific time and within a limited scale. Oh, and there was no free pass if my earnings didn't reach a certain level or if I didn't complete payments by a certain anniversary.
The majority of people didn't go to university and those that were working paid double the amount of income tax then that you now erroneously ascribe to your student loan repayments.

Interestingly, Joan Bakewell has just published a book about moving from her large family home to a much smaller one.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08PCRT49X/?psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&coliid=IUJY8RC605C2B&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&colid=3GN1FS7KDN7GI

@tattymacduff

why should I in a 3 bed house as max capacity pay for your parents care whilst they sit on their asset?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers but you won't pay as if both parents or one surviving parent require residential care the house will have to be sold to pay for it.

If you or your partner or children become disabled, would you be willing to downsize to pay for your/their care?

Yes I’d downsize if I needed to to pay for my child’s care- I’d downsize and move out of London is I needed to to fund any aspect of my life

That looks interesting, I know my mum found it emotionally quite difficult.

@shouldbeworkingmore

Where do you think the money should come from then ?

everyone

It is coming from everyone who is earning money. Should a little old lady who is barely affording to buy necessities and heat her home have to pay too?

People in IT are demanding and receiving 25%-30% rises to keep up with food inflation.

How much do people in IT eat?

@tintodeverano2 just read the thread, you may learn something.

I think it should come from the £350million we are meant to be saving from being in the EU.

Because there is no way the government lied, keep lying, breaking promises and get away with it every single time and keep being voted in.

@Ori3

Throwing more money at social care won't work. It's a bottomless pit. Societies' response to social care and our ability (both collectively and individually) to influence our health and our choices needs to change.

This. The fundamental structure of society has changed. Before - those who were lucky enough to live long benefited. Now it’s ‘most people’. More children with disabilities surviving and needing resources.

Unlike the Scandinavian countries which are largely homogenous and community based social contract the U.K. has high immigration and a class based society.

The whole system needs rethinking

Little old ladies who can barely afford the necessities wont earn enough to pay NI!

@DynamoKev

I think those stats will be dramatically different in 12 months time. If you've not had a payrise in 5 years as I know many haven't now is a good time to be job hunting and start demanding a wage you can live on. The shoes is firmly on your foot right now. There are no such shoes on my foot. I am lucky I managed to get a job after the effects of the recent IR35 changes and Covid forced me to close my small business. I am earning almost my 2008 Salary but the chances of a big rise or a job change are minimal. I work (and have for most of career ) in IT. I am far from alone. You are operating in your own anecdotal bubble - so have a look at mine (and 1000s of others).

You're in a great position to learn the technologies that are in demand then, better placed than most. IR35 had little impact on most true contractors.

@Almostwelsh

Yes it's unfair as people over retirement age don't pay NI. Pensioners do pay income tax if their income is high enough. Any extra tax should go on there, or something like a land value tax.

It's not just pensioners who don't pay NIC.

Lots of people live on "investment income" on which there's no NIC, i.e. dividends, property rentals, trust funds, foreign earnings.

Limited company owners (plumbers, electricians, lorry drivers etc) can pay themselves dividends instead of wages thus avoid paying NIC.

Lots of people are on "low" wages (or have 2 or more part time jobs) and don't pay NIC.

NIC needs scrapping. It's arbitrary and unfair. We need to raise income tax rates for all, to spread it more fairly.

If you or your partner or children become disabled, would you be willing to downsize to pay for your/their care?

Yes. It's part of our scenario planning for if something happens to either of us. We have an asset with a decent amount of equity, we would expect to change the kind of housing we could afford if something awful happens and we need to fund care.

I'd prefer care to be properly funded through the taxation system (NOT NI) but recognise that at the current point, with our current demographics, there are some huge affordability and generational fairness issues that today's retirees didn't have to face when they were in their younger working years, so there needs to be a period of adjustment and a lot of that should be around housing and unearned inheritance wealth.

In many European countries council tax is a %tage of the value of your house. I think this is a fairer way of doing it. 0.5% or 0.7% of the value of your house each year. Would encourage downsizing and would tax wealth more effectively.

Literally every time there's a discussion about an area needing funding we all agree it needs more funding, and then all set about arguing why each area of society shouldn't have to pay for it. I'm so glad I never went into politics, it must feel like a constant game of whack-a-mole.

Of course the obvious answer is - tax the rich more. But then they might all move to Switzerland or something and take all the money they hoard and don't put into the economy with them. The worst part is all the squeezed middles arguing against taxing higher earners in the vain hope that they might one day join them...

@Mirrorxx

It shouldn’t be additional NI as retired people don’t pay NI. So yes it is once again the young having to pay

This. Social care should be funded through taxes that everyone pays, not just those under retirement age.

However, I just don't like the argument that "young people shouldn't have to pay for the elderly" as all my peers are certainly happy to pay. It just seems like a lazy argument/an excuse to justify not caring about others. Isn't looking after other people essentially the point of society?!

I agree. One day those young people will be old too!

@Gimlisaxe

I think it should come from the £350million we are meant to be saving from being in the EU.

Because there is no way the government lied, keep lying, breaking promises and get away with it every single time and keep being voted in.

Based on current economic predictions Brexit has had a net cost of between £400 and £700 million per week, a totally accurate figure is difficult as some of it is tied up with Covid at the moment, but the most likely is in the middle of that. So far from saving us £350 million a week, it has cost us £550 million a week, or if we want to use some other metrics the cost of Brexit is the same as building two hospitals a week, 50 schools a week, one weeks cost is enough to house 30k people in nursing homes for a whole year. The annual cost of Brexit is more than the total raised by Council Tax, you could raise everyone's tax free allowance by £4,500 per year etc.

But I suppose people got blue passports and could tell some other people to "go home".