AIBU to ask how much support Pro-Life believers provide for actual children in need? Texas just banned abortion in the US.

[thecranberries]

AIBU to ask what Pro Life 'supporters' do to actually help living children in need? Sparked by Rachel Maddow Show Podcast on MSNBC - which gives a brilliant coverage on what's going on.

PL seems to want to stop a woman's right to choose, even in instances of rape or incest. That's in Texas, US, but as we know, many of the 'trends' that start in the US migrate over here. And as we know, there are lots of Pro-Life (read anti abortion, anti women) believers over here.

So, my AIBU is to ask - what do these PL do to actually support actual living children in need in this country or the world? How much do they give to UNICEF/Save the Children etc charities? How much do they donate time, money and resources to actual children living in poverty, bad housing, experiencing harm or bad schooling to ensure that these actual living children get the best life possible?

Do these PL, who cite religious grounds, actually enable women to obtain proper contraception when they need it? And speaking about religion, how many religious PL turn a blind eye to religious organisations history of child abuse?

I don't understand anyone, especially men, who does not accept a woman's right to chose what happens to her own body.

So, AIBU to ask Pro Life supporters to tell me in detail what they do - as actively as supporting their 'cause' - when it comes to helping living children in need?

@thecranberries
As law in Texas now stands, a woman cannot get an abortion once a heartbeat is detected, which is generally at 6 weeks.

No, that only applies to abortion by choice. Not all abortions. Abortions in case of serious fatal abnormalities or health of the mother still legal.

Do wish people actually read facts before opining.

Yes me too. And listening to a news show is no substitute for actually reading the bill..which I have done.

*fetal abnormalities not fatal....sorry

many others are pro-life partly because abortion is such a damaging experience for many women.

While it's laudable to help children in need, it's irrelevant to the PL/PC argument - unless you seriously believe that it's better to be dead than living in poverty.

Believing that abortion needs to be prevented because the poor womenz need to be prevented from doing something that a tiny percentage of them regret is 100% anti-woman. Women deserve autonomy over their bodies, as do all competent adult humans, and that includes the right to make decisions they may, or may not, later regret.

An embryo that is aborted will never exist as a human and experience consciousness, or regret, or suffering. Leaving poverty aside completely, yes, that's better than being born to a mother who is being compelled to continue the pregnancy against her will.

[quote shouldistop]@Mrgrinch I'd prefer to label it forced birther [/quote]
Like I said, label it whatever you like.

@Mrgrinch

I am pro-life / anti-abortion, whatever you want to label it as. This came as good news to me.

Why do you feel that people need to pay money or time because they don't believe in abortion? Do you give money or volunteer for every organisation that lines up with your opinion and valued on every aspect of life? If so, I'm surprised you have and time and money left at all.

Can you expand on what you are trying to say? Your post is confusing.

@Mrgrinch

I am pro-life / anti-abortion, whatever you want to label it as. This came as good news to me.

Why do you feel that people need to pay money or time because they don't believe in abortion? Do you give money or volunteer for every organisation that lines up with your opinion and valued on every aspect of life? If so, I'm surprised you have and time and money left at all.

So you agree women should be forced to have a child they don't want? Jeez that's sickening.

Your username starts with MR if you are in fact a MR then you should keep your nose out of women's business it does not concern you in the slightest, if your not a MR same applies because it's not your fucking body we're talking about, and you don't get to make choices for other women that don't affect you.

@Mrgrinch

I am pro-life / anti-abortion, whatever you want to label it as. This came as good news to me.

Why do you feel that people need to pay money or time because they don't believe in abortion? Do you give money or volunteer for every organisation that lines up with your opinion and valued on every aspect of life? If so, I'm surprised you have and time and money left at all.

To the best of my knowledge, there aren't political positions that I support which force women to give birth to children they may not be in a position to look after, or one which brings many more children into situations of poverty or neglect because their parents aren't able to care for them.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz sorry I'll try my best. The way the OP has written her post makes it look like people can only be pro-life if they donate to charities etc, I don't understand that logic. Surely that would mean that to be against animal cruelty I'd have to donate to that too, and each and every other thing I do or don't believe in. That's just not possible is it.

@Mrgrinch why is it exactly that you believe a 13 year old raped by her own father should be forced to give birth to his child?

I'll spell it out in small words, @Mrgrinch; because if you believe in actively forcing women and girls to continue pregnancies they don't want to continue (and don't forget, some of these pregnancies will be of young girls, and some of them will be the result of rape and incest) then you should be willing to fucking sack up and help ameliorate the suffering of those humans you are forcing to bear children, and of the children. Since you have such strong moral beliefs, and all.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Texas has banned abortion

Sorry but they haven’t. They’ve restricted abortion, not banned it. A ban is when something is illegal no matter the circumstances.

Texas has banned abortion after six weeks, long before a lot of women realise their pregnant.

Better yet, anyone and I mean anyone can report a woman, an abortion provider and anyone who assists in the procurement of abortion, with a bounty of $10,000 being paid.

This means a rapist can successfully sue his victim and the abortion provider whether or not there's a prosecution.

www.texastribune.org/2021/05/18/texas-heartbeat-bill-abortions-law/

Lots of Texans are now signing up to join the Satanic Church, who are suing as it's denying their religious freedom.

We will certainly see how much they believe in religion over people when Satanists become the predominant religion in Texas.

Sadly that will take some time and the Women and girls of Texas need help right now.

[quote Mrgrinch]@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz sorry I'll try my best. The way the OP has written her post makes it look like people can only be pro-life if they donate to charities etc, I don't understand that logic. Surely that would mean that to be against animal cruelty I'd have to donate to that too, and each and every other thing I do or don't believe in. That's just not possible is it.[/quote]
It's a fair point that if you are directly campaigning to ensure that there are thousands of extra unwanted children being born that you should contribute towards their living costs.

Why should the mother who didn't want the kid in the first place pay however many thousands of pounds it takes to raise it?

Also, as someone who is pro-life how does the fact that around 30,000 women die each year from unsafe, illegal abortions sit with you? You cool with that?

@BuffySummersReportingforSanity

I'll spell it out in small words, *@Mrgrinch*; because if you believe in actively forcing women and girls to continue pregnancies they don't want to continue (and don't forget, some of these pregnancies will be of young girls, and some of them will be the result of rape and incest) then you should be willing to fucking sack up and help ameliorate the suffering of those humans you are forcing to bear children, and of the children. Since you have such strong moral beliefs, and all.

I disagree. Pro-choicers always like to use extreme circumstances to back up their arguments, even though these make up less than 1% of abortions.

Just because I don't believe humans should have the right to end a life, doesn't make it my responsibility to care for the baby.

Why do you feel that people need to pay money or time because they don't believe in abortion?

Because it is because of their actions that unwanted babies are born. Because its hypocritical that people claim to care about unborn babies, but instead of investing their time and money into helping them when they are born they invest it into making a website to report woman who have abortions. They don't want to help anyone. They just want to punish.

Just because I don't believe humans should have the right to end a life, doesn't make it my responsibility to care for the baby.

Frankly I wouldn't want someone like you caring for a baby in the first place.

Generally they’re not pro-life though, they’re pro-birth. Thats why a large proportion of these people are anti financial support, contraception education and availability, ironically more likely to support the death penalty. Odd that the state murdering an actual is okay, but a woman having a minimally developed embryo removed isn’t okay.

If they were pro-life they would support good quality sex education for all, they would support easy and cheap/free access to contraception, they would be campaigning and voting for adequate support for parents, be it increased financial help, state housing, access to childcare to enable parents to work or attend university/training.

But no, once that baby is born they see it as nothing other than an inconvenience.

@AlternativePerspective

My DP is a Christian and his ire is that these people aren’t pro life at all, they’re pro birth, with little thought to what happens to everyone once that birth has occurred.

Interesting isn’t it that Texas has banned abortion but still supports the death penalty.

And you no longer need a licence to carry a handgun

@Drgnbllx

Why do you feel that people need to pay money or time because they don't believe in abortion?

Because it is because of their actions that unwanted babies are born. Because its hypocritical that people claim to care about unborn babies, but instead of investing their time and money into helping them when they are born they invest it into making a website to report woman who have abortions. They don't want to help anyone. They just want to punish.

Right so they don't care about the babies, that they campaign to keep alive? Makes sense.

[quote GnomeOrMistAndIceGuy]@Mrgrinch why is it exactly that you believe a 13 year old raped by her own father should be forced to give birth to his child?[/quote]
Yes @Mrgrinch, I too would like to gear your answer to this question!

@Mrgrinch While I can see what you are saying, where I 100% agree with OP is that many anti-abortin types are out there agitating/protesting/lobbying etc and donating time and finances to the anti-abortion campaign and it's hard to understand how all these people are happy to spend this much time and effort and money on anti abortion but aren't willing to take it a step further to think about how to support those children who they are insisting must be born.

Personally, I'd find it a lot easier to understand or accept anti-abortion campaigners if part of their campaigning was saying, "ok, we believe that the foetus is a baby and that abortion is murder but we understand that women don't want a baby so let's see what we can do to support women in this situation so that they choose not to abort."

Pro-choicers always like to use extreme circumstances to back up their arguments, even though these make up less than 1% of abortions

They happen. Literally every day. You know how many women and girls there are in Texas? Every day.

Thanks for proving beyond doubt that you literally couldn't give less of a shit about that fourteen-year-old pregnant by her mother's boyfriend and the life she has ahead of her, though. Because hey, she's only 1%.

@Mrgrinch What are you doing to support the babies that are born through forced birth?

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@thecranberries
As law in Texas now stands, a woman cannot get an abortion once a heartbeat is detected, which is generally at 6 weeks.

No, that only applies to abortion by choice. Not all abortions. Abortions in case of serious fatal abnormalities or health of the mother still legal.

Do wish people actually read facts before opining.

Yes me too. And listening to a news show is no substitute for actually reading the bill..which I have done.[/quote]
And once again, please understand that a woman does not even know she is pregnant until about 6 weeks. At that time, there is no way to even know the 'state' of the foetus as there is just a heartbeat. There is almost no serious consequence for a woman's health at 6 weeks gestation, as the foetus is the size of a pea.

It is generally accepted that there is no heartbeat prior to six weeks, so even if the woman went for all the tests available, it would not be as conclusive as when the heartbeat is detected.

And it is from six weeks that anyone who 'aides and abets' the woman in obtaining an abortion - for whatever reason, even if she was raped or a victim of incest - cannot have a legal abortion in Texas.

Oh, and your point about 'Not all abortions' is irrelevant - all abortions are the choice of the woman/in consultation with her family. Are you saying that the state actually insists on abortions if there is an 'abnormality' (this is a personal definition)? Cite facts please.

Pro-choicers always like to use extreme circumstances to back up their arguments, even though these make up less than 1% of abortions.
These circumstances may seem "extreme" to you, but those of us who work in areas of poverty and chaos see it more than you think.
Again, do you think these women and girls in "extreme" circumstances should be forced to give birth?