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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think a tax on nappies is unfair?

291 replies

colacolaco · 31/08/2021 22:52

It just seems like yet again, it’s the poorest families who will be penalized and suffer most from this.

And what next - a tax on sanitary pads and tampons? Because guess what, they’re not very environmentally friendly either.

OP posts:
OhGiveUp · 01/09/2021 11:12

I always used terry towelling nappies for mine. I bought good quality ones which lasted both kids and my nephew's before being cut up for cleaning rags.
I dried them on the line outside on dry days and on the clothes airer on wet days.
I used to be very proud of my snowy white nappies blowing on the line.
My sister in law had her first child at around the same time as I had my first and she used disposables, which cost god knows how much over the period of time they were used compared to my terries.

MyDcAreMarvel · 01/09/2021 11:17

@laurenlodge *
Women don't choose to have periods, so equating nappies and tampons isn't really a relevant analogy is it.* and babies don’t choose not to bother going to the toilet!

MyDcAreMarvel · 01/09/2021 11:19

There are no plans to tax nappies , it’s fake news.

elbea · 01/09/2021 11:22

@Iwonder08 I don’t necessarily agree with taxing disposable nappies, I’d rather see reusables being incentivised however today’s reusables aren’t the same as the ones our parents/grandparents used.

I work full time and my husband is deployed most of the year so I’m pretty time poor, but the idea that it’s lots of extra work just isn’t the case. All I do is pop the nappies on a 30 minute rinse every morning before work. After work I put them into open, airy basket. Every three days I put the nappies in with the rest of my daughters laundry. I hang them to dry outside in the summer and in the airing cupboard in the winter. Before weaning the poo doesn’t need removing, after I just tip it down the toilet. There is no more boiling and soaking required.

I think there needs to be more awareness that it isn’t necessarily a big, arduous task that takes hours.

TreesoftheField · 01/09/2021 11:24

It's a bit like breastfeeding.
I had no problems breastfeeding. Because my mum and older sisters had done it and shared their experiences and it was normal to me.
I really wanted to use cloth nappies but Don't know anyone that does and felt overwhelmed by all the information out there. The information sessions run locally were all when I was at work and I worried about paying a lot of Money for something that didn't work.
Now I have a neighbour that uses them and they look so cute and she doesn't find it difficult - if I had another baby she could share experiences and I would do it.

When someone finds breastfeeding difficult, all they get is pressure and stress, not support. This is similar- it needs to be made accessible and understandable. If they put some money into promoting, giving information and grants towards upfront costs, I'm sure the uptake would increase.

Malin52 · 01/09/2021 11:49

@ActonSquirrel

Just goes to show there is plenty of fear and handwringing about the environment and how something must be done...until that something inconveniences you.
Precisely this. Momentary inconveniences add up to a shit tonne of waste that will have a huge and potentially life threatening impact on these children as they get to adulthood.

I don't have kids by choice. Yet I make huge and disruptive changes in my life to ensure other generations don't feel my impact. Yet the people who do won't make the effort because 'inconvenience' or 'baby might be slightly uncomfortable for a moment '.

And as a PP stated as if it was a reason for not taxing disposables, disabilities can always be excepted.

Megan2018 · 01/09/2021 12:13

@OlympicProcrastinator

What about the mums who have to work full time? How would a nursery for example deal with 30 kids in cloth nappies? Would they be doing all this extra washing or drying or have a cloakroom full of stinking shit filled cloths to give back to the parents? It’s no good talking about the olden days either. Women largely stayed at home. This just smacks of ‘poor women shouldn’t have children’ again to me.,
A third of the children in our nursery are in cloth The nursery doesn't wash them, we each provide our own nappies in a wet bag each day and take the soiled home. Nothing stinks. You are so ignorant!
Megan2018 · 01/09/2021 12:27

I am genuinely astounded at some of the comments on here. So much nonsense spouted.

For the record - in our house we both work (I am slightly part time at 30 hours, DH does 45), we don't tumble dry. DD is at nursery for 4 days a week - all in cloth. There are many children at nursery in cloth, it's roughly a third at mine although minor variations in each room. My nursery didn't bat an eyelid at using them and it's not an affluent area.

We both wash and dry them, it's not my job! The machine goes on early and we either hang out to dry or hang indoors to dry. We wash every other day. Solids are flushed, then nappies are rinsed in the machine before a full cycle is run. They dry indoors in 24hrs, less when the heating is on. We use cloth wipes as well as nappies, much kinder on skin and will be used afterwards for mopping up spills etc.

We're only having one child but could easily use the same nappies on 3-4 babies and we will sell on ours once potty trained so they will do multiple children. The initial outlay is less than the cost of disposables for one child, let alone two or more.

Modern cloth nappies don't need soaking, they don't need folding or pinning (although some people do use terries still)- the simplest designs go on and off just like a disposable. It takes longer to buy a pack of disposables from the shop than it takes to load and unload a washing machine. There's really no work at all.

Plus point is we don't have a full bin full of shit - now that stinks.

PineappleWilson · 01/09/2021 12:48

We had cloth nappies for our oldest but gave them up when we couldn't find local childcare who would accomomdate them. This is 12 years ago, but nursery staff looked at us like we had 2 heads when we asked if they could accommodate cloth nappies.

powershowerforanhour · 01/09/2021 12:50

I used cloth nappies and found it ok despite the fact that I am the laziest person alive, don't have a tumble drier and the weather here in Northern Ireland is rubbish. Nursery didn't mind (and so they shouldn't; anywhere that throws a pile of sticks down and calls it a "bug hotel" or bangs on about their eco kids' veggie garden on their FB page needs to walk the talk wrt less social media friendly subjects like poo- and to their credit, they did).

Agree with the carrot and stick thoughts expressed upthread though. Banning the advertising of disposables as per a PP suggestion would be a good start.

jacks11 · 01/09/2021 12:58

Absolutely this. Fewer women prior to the 60’s may have been “at work” in the sense we now think, but many, many women (especially in poorer households) did work- often in much more physically demanding jobs than nowadays- as well as bringing up their families and doing household chores. My paternal grandmother and great-grandmother (fishermen’s wives) both worked (gutting/dressing fish/repairing nets and an oilskin factory, respectively) and this was very common among their peers. There was no maternity leave, no sick pay etc. In addition, many women had informal “jobs” or aided their husband by working alongside/doing work behind the scenes (common in farming and fishing communities, for instance, but also shop-keepers). I have absolutely no wish to return to those days- but let’s not pretend that everything is harder for women now. The challenges are different, not necessarily harder.

On top of this, the housework was very different before household appliances were common. More time consuming and sometimes more physically demanding. So even for those who weren’t in formal employment housework would have taken up more time. My mother remembers when her parents bought their first washing machine. Prior to that it had been hand washing/mangle etc. My grandmother had “wash days” at the local community laundry (not laundrette- this was hand washing) and clothes were dried on the green or the laundry had an inside area. Some families had pulleys. My father was born in 1951 and he can remember this, so within living memory.

Meals had to be made from scratch. Freezers didn’t exist, or were only for those who could afford them in the early days, so could batch cook and freeze. No ready meals/much less in way of prepared and processed foods. No hoovers, no microwaves to hear things in seconds. Everything took longer as had to be done by hand.

Our lives are different now, with different pressures, but let’s not pretend that women didn’t work in the past. They did and housework was far more time consuming than it has to be now. It’s really not as simple as “no working mother has time for washing cloth nappies, but the mothers in the past did as they did not work”. I work full time, in a professional job with long hours. I found it easy to integrate into my routine, it is possible if it’s something you want to do. It also isn’t as expensive as you think, can get second hand and there are grants too. No need for a tumble drier. It is less convenient, but it’s not uncommon to have to pay now for convenience.

Either way- it’s not about each woman “challenging the patriarchy” whilst she’s on maternity leave. My point is that it is up to each of us to manage our own relationships. The government, local authorities or whoever cannot make policy based on whether some/many women do more than their fair share of housework! That is up to each of us to sort within our relationships.

Most women are not in arranged or forced marriages/co-habiting partnerships. The majority of women chose to get married/live with their partner, they are partly responsible for domestic arrangements and if they aren’t happy they are the only ones who can ask/demand change if they aren’t happy. They are the only ones who can chose whether to stay and put up with the situation if their partner won’t change, or whether to leave. They are the ones who choose to have children with these men who won’t share the burden of household chores. Of course, men who don’t share household chores (and childcare) are equally, if not more, responsible for their failings as women who tolerate it. BUT if you chose to be in a relationship, live with and have a child (or children) with a man who will not act like an equal partner, who do you expect to be able to change that?

Caspianberg · 01/09/2021 13:08

Once they become mainstream again, people will pass them on like baby clothes so there will be a much better secondhand market. Reducing cost.

Obviously if you buy you own new, the cost per child decreases if you use again.

Our biggest positives have also been, never had nappy rash, and bin doesn’t get full and stink.

UndertheCedartree · 01/09/2021 13:12

@DingleyDel - I remember that report. It was based on using a tumble drier and ironing the nappies! Which no one I know has done/does!
@poshme - you just do the same as any other washing you dry over night. You make sure the room is ventilated. I live near the coast and I had no problem drying my nappies and no damp.

SvenandSven · 01/09/2021 13:27

I used cloth nappies for my two. I did use disposables for holidays.
The cloth nappies lasted for both my two and then I sold them on.
I have never had a tumble dryer and managed with no problems. Our childminder had no issues using them.
Using cloth was our choice and lead me to discovering reusable sanitary ware.
I use a moon cup and DD has chosen to use period pants.

Miniroofbox · 01/09/2021 13:39

I think you mean wear @SvenandSven 😂

SvenandSven · 01/09/2021 14:19

😂 Didn't spot that

Miniroofbox · 01/09/2021 14:20

Puts a whole new spin on a compost toilet 😂😂😂

Malin52 · 01/09/2021 14:36

@jacks11

Absolutely this. Fewer women prior to the 60’s may have been “at work” in the sense we now think, but many, many women (especially in poorer households) did work- often in much more physically demanding jobs than nowadays- as well as bringing up their families and doing household chores. My paternal grandmother and great-grandmother (fishermen’s wives) both worked (gutting/dressing fish/repairing nets and an oilskin factory, respectively) and this was very common among their peers. There was no maternity leave, no sick pay etc. In addition, many women had informal “jobs” or aided their husband by working alongside/doing work behind the scenes (common in farming and fishing communities, for instance, but also shop-keepers). I have absolutely no wish to return to those days- but let’s not pretend that everything is harder for women now. The challenges are different, not necessarily harder.

On top of this, the housework was very different before household appliances were common. More time consuming and sometimes more physically demanding. So even for those who weren’t in formal employment housework would have taken up more time. My mother remembers when her parents bought their first washing machine. Prior to that it had been hand washing/mangle etc. My grandmother had “wash days” at the local community laundry (not laundrette- this was hand washing) and clothes were dried on the green or the laundry had an inside area. Some families had pulleys. My father was born in 1951 and he can remember this, so within living memory.

Meals had to be made from scratch. Freezers didn’t exist, or were only for those who could afford them in the early days, so could batch cook and freeze. No ready meals/much less in way of prepared and processed foods. No hoovers, no microwaves to hear things in seconds. Everything took longer as had to be done by hand.

Our lives are different now, with different pressures, but let’s not pretend that women didn’t work in the past. They did and housework was far more time consuming than it has to be now. It’s really not as simple as “no working mother has time for washing cloth nappies, but the mothers in the past did as they did not work”. I work full time, in a professional job with long hours. I found it easy to integrate into my routine, it is possible if it’s something you want to do. It also isn’t as expensive as you think, can get second hand and there are grants too. No need for a tumble drier. It is less convenient, but it’s not uncommon to have to pay now for convenience.

Either way- it’s not about each woman “challenging the patriarchy” whilst she’s on maternity leave. My point is that it is up to each of us to manage our own relationships. The government, local authorities or whoever cannot make policy based on whether some/many women do more than their fair share of housework! That is up to each of us to sort within our relationships.

Most women are not in arranged or forced marriages/co-habiting partnerships. The majority of women chose to get married/live with their partner, they are partly responsible for domestic arrangements and if they aren’t happy they are the only ones who can ask/demand change if they aren’t happy. They are the only ones who can chose whether to stay and put up with the situation if their partner won’t change, or whether to leave. They are the ones who choose to have children with these men who won’t share the burden of household chores. Of course, men who don’t share household chores (and childcare) are equally, if not more, responsible for their failings as women who tolerate it. BUT if you chose to be in a relationship, live with and have a child (or children) with a man who will not act like an equal partner, who do you expect to be able to change that?

Wonderful post @jacks11 we forget that our parents/grandparents, whereas having the supposed luxury of time because they were able to not work, in actual fact didn't have as much of the labour saving elements of life we so take for granted now. Days were taken up with activities which now take moments.

I remember as a kid even with an auto twin tub in the late 70's, washing day was exactly that a day or two days of work. The machine was ceremoniously trundled out to the middle of the kitchen floor. Several loads hand transferred from one tub to the other requiring constant attention with tongs In the washer, floods, untangling stuff in the spinner and then 'pegged out'. No shoving things in a machine and walking away. According to my mother this was just a generation away from scrubbing the clothes by hand and then running them through a mangle.

poshme · 01/09/2021 14:39

@UndertheCedartree yes you should ventilate obvs. But an awful lot of landlords don't like tenants drying washing inside- for good reason. It's really bad for buildings. (Just ask @pigletjohn )

And being near the coast can make a difference- depending how close to the sea. I remember trying for 3 days to dry clothes & sheets in a house on the Cornish coast (on cliff top right next to sea). Drying nappies as well would've added to the damp air in the house and made it even worse.

CustomerRelations · 01/09/2021 14:46

All poo goes in the toilet. It always amazes me on these threads how many people think disposable nappies go in the washing machine stacked with turds.

Poo from disposables should also go in the toilet. Because that's where poo goes.

HungryHippo11 · 01/09/2021 15:33

@User875906

Are they not hard and scratchy if you don't use a dryer, I line dry my towels in summer and tumble dry in winter and the difference is quite noticeable. Maybe they are made of different material to towels.
Ours are made of bamboo. We live in a very hard water area and they're still soft and not scratchy, although not as soft as when they were brand new. You could always put them on a quick tumble dry for 5 mins to soften them up a bit. I use a fleece liner so the nappy isn't against the babys skin so much anyway, just the soft liner.
OhGiveUp · 01/09/2021 15:46

I managed to work full time and wash nappies with a twin tub, as did my mother.
By the time my second child arrived, I had an automatic washing machine so I used to put the nappies in on a boil wash before I went to bed, then either peg them out or put them on the airer, weather dependent.
How you manage your time is down to you.
My daughter has the time management skills of a garden snail, fortunately she doesn't have, nor want kids otherwise she would be buried under a mountain of housework wondering why the kids dinners are six hours late and why the cat hasn't been seen for a week. ( I actually read that last paragraph out to her and she's nodding in agreement ) 😂

HungryHippo11 · 01/09/2021 15:48

Extra work required for all the cleaning of reusable nappies would probably finish me off
Two or three extra loads of laundry a week would finish you off? Honestly, people are acting like you have to sew your own nappies and scrub them in a river 🙄

Caspianberg · 01/09/2021 16:03

I estimate with do an extra 3 loads per week, it probably takes me ( or dh) 1 mins to put in machine, and 5mins to hang up and 5 mins to put away. So 10-15 mins 3 times per week. We both do it, so it’s maybe 15 mins per person per week ‘work’

We use the same small flannels for cleaning baby butt and wiping face and hands after meals ( obviously not the exact same one!). What do people use if they don’t use washable cloths? Do you use a disposable wet wipe at every meal?

ATrifleofFun · 01/09/2021 16:38

We use reusables for DD. Have to say I'm generally impressed but not so impressed by the Bambino mios. They are losing velcro stickyness after a year, and guess what they only have one year warranty. Which of course is over because we bought them before having the child Envy not envy as someone who doesn't have the skills to unpick and resew velcro this makes them useless for a second child Sad. Buyers beware and all that.