To think a tax on nappies is unfair?

[colacolaco]

It just seems like yet again, it’s the poorest families who will be penalized and suffer most from this.

And what next - a tax on sanitary pads and tampons? Because guess what, they’re not very environmentally friendly either.

I think wherever there's a reusable option of something, any disposable versions should be taxed to the hilt.

Its difficult. At the end of the day, disposable nappies and cheap and easy, so there's little to incentivise people to change to washable, which are clearly far better for the environment.

I think this is only reasonable if it is matched with:

• government grants or subsidies to provide cloth nappy sets for low income families
• advice services to help get people started on cloth

At the end of the day potty training has got later and later since the introduction of disposables - it's easier for parents to just leave them in disposables, especially between 18m and 3, when most children need some help to go the loo (eg wiping and managing clothes), and often need more reminders too. It requires the parent to put in some effort but the reality is we need to do that for the environmental benefits.

Oh and

1. you dont need a tumble drier to use washable nappies. There are lots of modern fabrics options that dry relatively fast and remember how women used to use washable nappies before the tumble drier was invented?

2. they dont have to be that expensive either. The trendiest yummy brands with limited edition prints are a rip off yep, but there are loads of much cheaper approaches and there's a roaring second hand trade because washable actually work better when they've been used and washed a few times already. There are also people happy to hand on preloved sets for free (I gave mine away).

"So would this include adult nappies too? I use disposable with my care clients, where do they draw the line?"

It absolutely shouldn't include older childrens or adults products.

@Sockwomble

"So would this include adult nappies too? I use disposable with my care clients, where do they draw the line?"

It absolutely shouldn't include older childrens or adults products.

There are fewer adults and disabled children needing them though..

Every baby wears them for at least 2.5 to 3 years or even longer and people don't bother to train them at a reached anymore.

I would imagine disposable pads and sanitary products for hospitals would be exempt from the tax as it is unsanitary to have reusable in a hospital setting.

*reasonable age

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@laurenlodge*
Women don't choose to have periods, so equating nappies and tampons isn't really a relevant analogy is it.* and babies don’t choose not to bother going to the toilet![/quote]
Perhaps not, but parents choose to have kids and many choose to wait until age 3 to potty train

My order of cloth nappies (second hand) has arrived today, my postpartum pads and breast pads are due tomorrow and I have had a menstrual cup for years. It’s cheaper than disposable products so wouldn’t hurt the poor families. A free credit for low income families could help with the initial cost and a 0% tax rate on reusable products should also be introduced at the same time as disposable products (including menstrual products) should be taxed.

I think heavy government subsidies could work. If I’d have had a free trial pack of reusables I’d have given it a go but it seemed like too much effort to be honest to do the research and extra washing. The problem with raising tax is that people who are comfortable like me would just pay it for the convenience while the people who don’t have that choice will be the ones who are punished.

I don’t think the government should subsidise them, just make disposables more expensive and more will opt into cloth.
Costs of a child should be borne by the parents not other tax payers.

@Lockheart

I think if you want the convenience of a disposable polluting item over a more environmentally friendly option then yes you should have to pay for the privilege of having your consequent rubbish sit in landfill for several hundred years, for example.

The same principle applies for cars, energy, travel, clothing etc.

All of our choices have consequences. Up until quite recently we've been able to do what we like and consume what we like and throw away what we like without really having to ever think about it. Unfortunately that's not sustainable.

Agreed

I admit I used disposable nappies for convenience when my son was a baby. Now that we are all expected to think of the climate, then we should pay extra for that convenience or use resuable ones instead.

Babies are expensive. If you want one you have to suck up the associated expenses.

How wonderful!

Higher initial investment, more washing and drying, more labour, more time- and we all know it will be the women doing all that extra work washing shit out of reusable nappies.

Wonderful.

While we’re at it, perhaps we should go back to using washboards for our laundry as well? 🙄

@FuckinGoddess

How wonderful!

Higher initial investment, more washing and drying, more labour, more time- and we all know it will be the women doing all that extra work washing shit out of reusable nappies.

Wonderful.

While we’re at it, perhaps we should go back to using washboards for our laundry as well? 🙄

You might have chosen the wrong partner/husband. Mine does more then 50% of cooking, nearly all the shopping, I put things in the wash and he hangs it up. I organised the household and he does it. It works well for us, prevents my eczema from flaring up and it is the most organised way of getting things done.

Hand washing is definitely his job!

I would have a discussion with him.

You need cheap good nappy services

I think it's time to start connecting direct taxes to direct sources of funding to be honest.

If the government procurement departments were in any way capable of making good use of public funds you could use the extra money to directly invest in cloth nappy schemes - or distribute the money to local councils to run schemes.

As it is the money is swallowed into the treasury and as pp have said the poorest people are effected.

Same with toothbrushes - they are way to cheap right now, the market forces are so slow to switch to bamboo.

IMO sooner or later we will have to accept that the "choices" we make in the market are going to have to be very heavily limited - that's not a conversation anyone wants to have at the moment.

The problem with biodegradable nappies and wipes (or anything marked in that way tbh) is that the conditions needed for something to biodegrade are not created in landfill so they just sit there the same as the things that aren't "eco-friendly" it's just greenwashing by companies so they can sell a more expensive product.

This!

But while I do think people are potty training later too late, lots of people I know have done girls at 2y- 2y 3m and boys at 2y 6m.

I've done my kids just before age 2 with no problem.

You pay tax on adult incontinence products unless you have a disability and then you are exempt. The product itself isn’t exempt though.
Tampons are just made of cotton, why would they take ages to break down? It’s the plastics and gels that don’t decompose.
Not my experience that the majority of kids are in nappies until 3+ because parents ‘can’t be bothered’ to potty train. Cleaning pooey bottoms is rank when they’re on 3 square meals a day!

The other thing is that reusable products are so much better then they used to be. Not so long ago there were no menstrual cups/ period pants etc and cloth nappies were terry squares.

@User56439876 yeh I worked full time, used cloth nappies.
You send them in with the child jn the morning, staff shake the poo into the loo same as at home give you them back at night in a waterproof bag.
I did a nappy wash every other day, they dry very quickly.
I loved ours.

Plus point is we don't have a full bin full of shit - now that stinks.

@Megan2018 why would you have a bin full of shit because you use disposable nappies? Am I missing something here?

@DingleyDel

Also anyone who tells me that washables are fine to go in on a 40 degree wash is lying. They need to be washed at 60 to be hygienic.

Hygienic how? It's just had wee on it and is going to go against the same child's bum when it'll soon be covered in wee again. It's not like you eat it... If my older child has a wee accident, I don't wash her pants and leggings at 60, I just throw them in the wash with other clothes. The nappies are probably more hygienic than a towel that's not washed between uses.

I don't agree with a tax at all but there's so much rubbish still being repeated on this thread.

• Yes you can work full time and use cloth nappies
• Yes nurseries will deal with them
• No you don't need a tumble dryer
• No, you don't need to spend a hundreds to start (think I spent £50)

@lllllllllll

Plus point is we don't have a full bin full of shit - now that stinks.

@Megan2018 why would you have a bin full of shit because you use disposable nappies? Am I missing something here?

Next door have an overflowing bin every fortnight full of revolting nappy bags. I’m 99.99% sure they aren’t flushing the shit before bagging. I don’t have an overflowing bin. Ours is barely half full.

To me it’s not worse than tax on clothing. You have to wear clothes. It’s illegal in public places to walk around naked. So we all have to have clothes.

If my older child has a wee accident, I don't wash her pants and leggings at 60, I just throw them in the wash with other clothes

I do. Because if I don’t they come out of the wash stinking of wee! A friend had 2nd hand cloth nappies that stank to high heaven of piss and no matter how many hot washes it wouldn’t come out. You need to wash at 60 to kill most bacteria/bugs, and even then not all are killed at that temp.

Maybe more people will consider cloth nappies this way? Haven't you considered poor people wouldn't be able to afford the energy supply bills to wash and dry these let alone the initial up front cost?!

Women don't choose to have periods, so equating nappies and tampons isn't really a relevant analogy is it. Many mothers have children who are conceived via rape. Making them a single parent with no one to help or pay child support for. Why should we be forced to pay more tax because of this?