To think a tax on nappies is unfair?

[colacolaco]

It just seems like yet again, it’s the poorest families who will be penalized and suffer most from this.

And what next - a tax on sanitary pads and tampons? Because guess what, they’re not very environmentally friendly either.

If women are being stuck with all this extra washing, then surely that is up to us to do something about it? The government or council or whoever cannot intervene in your relationship to make it one where household chores are split equally. Are we really suggesting we should set environmental policy because some women get left with housework?

Other than harvest or lambing time, things are fairly evenly split in my house- because we chose that. Well, actually I made it clear when we started living together that that was the deal, as DH was used to a slightly different set up- mum was a very traditional farmers wife, which I think she was quite content with- but he adapted quickly.

I think in general we need positive measures for the environment not punitive ones. We did reusable nappies, it was a huge set up cost and would have saved us a fortune except we got Velcro ones which turned out to be very easily undone by a one year old (so they were not birth to potty). Nursery also couldn't handle them so they were in disposables all day.

So instead of penalising disposable nappies, put support in place for reusable (libraries etc). Except that costs money, whereas taxing nappies brings money in.

@HungryHippo11

For those interested in trying affordable reusable nappies, aldi sell their own mama brand ones for about £5 and they often have a leading all-in-one nappy (Bambino Mio) for under £10. They are both microfiber so quick drying.

Unfortunately both of those are notoriously bad for leaks. They may be ok for light wetters / younger babies. Microfiber isn't very absorbent. I would advise against those 2 brands.

Second the previous tumble dryer comments - no tumble dryer required.

Why can’t they tax the manufacturers more based on amount of plastic packaging they use instead of it all being up to us?
It would amount to the same thing

Are they not hard and scratchy if you don't use a dryer, I line dry my towels in summer and tumble dry in winter and the difference is quite noticeable. Maybe they are made of different material to towels.

I couldn't have afforded cloth nappies- and when I had DS I was unaware of any grants.

How are you supposed to wash and dry them in the winter, when you and your partner work full time?

It may suit SAHM (again it may not) but for parents who work who has the time. Or else enough money to buy more so you don't have to wash as often

I think this is a ridiculous proposal - and obviously is thought up by men to have a go at women (and yes I know men change nappies too).

But how many nurseries deal with non-disposable nappies? When my son was small they didn't. Oh well you shouldn't be working then should you? Why did you have kids if you are going to outsource their upbringing etc.

But more particularly, the vast, overwhelming, majority of waste is caused by industry. Something like 93%. So maybe we could get industry to clean up its act first? And getting rid of general plastic tat would be a better start than nappies.

Nappies really aren't the issue here (and neither is sanitary protection). Anyone who thinks it is, please form an orderly queue to wash my sanitary towels (tried a mooncup about 15 years ago, leaked, didn't use again before anyone suggests it).

I'd rather see a ban on SUVs and I think it would have a much bigger and more immediate impact on the environment, and especially air quality.

@KilljoysDutch

People who think £50 or £130 is cheap are living a different reality to that of many women in the UK. £50 was more money than I got per week to survive on in 2002 as a teen mum on benefits. Even now on Disability payments if I fell pregnant I absolutely would not be able to pay that out, it would mean not eating for a good couple of weeks.

That's nearly 20 years ago!

Also, if £50/£130 means you wouldn't be able to eat, then you really can't afford a baby full stop!

You have a choice though.

Use disposable and pay the tax or buy reusable and don't be.

It isn't like there is no option.

If women are being stuck with all this extra washing, then surely that is up to us to do something about it? The government or council or whoever cannot intervene in your relationship to make it one where household chores are split equally. Are we really suggesting we should set environmental policy because some women get left with housework?
So women have to do the extra washing AND resolve ingrained societal inequalities in a patriarchal system? I suppose it’s something to pass the time on maternity leave.

I tried reusables for quite a long time but my daughter wasnt getting on with them and ended up switching. Feel awful about it and am genuinely going to donate a sum to environmental charity or to plant trees to counter it. So I understand reuseables can be too much for some people to cope with. However if there just weren't disposables anymore and the gov put money into giving, via midwife, a small set of reuseables to families to use then that would help tremendously. Cost of washing would then be like buying disposables anyway

So women have to do the extra washing AND resolve ingrained societal inequalities in a patriarchal system? I suppose it’s something to pass the time on maternity leave.

what a strange comment. If you are in a relationship where you feel like needing to “resolve ingrained societal inequalities in a patriarchal system” then what are doing in that relationship anyway? Who do you want to solve that for you?

As with extra washing, it comes with the territory when you have a baby.

So women have to do the extra washing AND resolve ingrained societal inequalities in a patriarchal system? I suppose it’s something to pass the time on maternity leave

^ THIS
It drives me crazy when people point out negative connotations of government decisions on women’s lives, just to put it right back at women’s feet. ‘Well if women don’t want to be disadvantaged they should take on and overhaul the entire system singlehandedly’ FFS

Also can’t stand the amount of ‘well you should just force your DP/DH to do it’ kinda comments, how exactly can anyone force a grown adult to do anything? If women just went on strike and ‘left men to it’ it’s the children who would suffer, not get changed, not get washed, not get fed. You cannot turn your infant children into pawns in your relationship power play and that it why women will always lose.

Would social services accept ‘well I was teaching my DH a lesson’ as a reasonable excuse for a child getting hurt? NO

You don't necessarily need a tumble drier for reusable nappies - but it might depend if you have space for an extra clothes area at home. I think a lot of people might say no when the answer is actually yes... they just don't want the inconvenience. There are those that won't though, for sure. There are more eco friendly disposables - I think we should be looking to see how those can be made more affordable but often a tax on the worse option is the only way to do that!

We DID pay tax on sanitary products until very recently, and that's something that women don't have the choice of using or not, so arguably more important. Not a bad idea to promote the use of cloth nappies though surely? Maybe subsidised to begin with.

@LittleBiscuit09

You have a choice though.

Use disposable and pay the tax or buy reusable and don't be.

It isn't like there is no option.

I looked into reusable nappies for my twins but based on how many I would need per child (as recommended by the company that sells reusable ones) the upfront cost was over £400 - not many people can afford that type of outlay in one go compared to a few pounds here and there weekly for a pack of disposable nappies

I don’t think this tax is necessarily a bad thing, although agree that it should come alongside subsidies for reusable options. Me and my husband were both students for our first and used reusables. We didn’t have reliable access to a tumble drier and dried them inside, and I returned to work/placements full time at 7 months. It probably was more hassle, but it was definitely manageable and definitely worth it to save money for us. Most areas have good networks for second hand nappies, or loan out ‘kits’, so the upfront cost was very small - you don’t need the brand new expensive ‘fashion’ nappies if struggling for money. I think this tax would probably affect people who can afford to pay for convenience more than the poorest families. And it might encourage families, especially poorer ones, to look into other (cheaper) options and end up being a win-win situation.

@User56439876 why would nursery costs go up? There are lots at our nursery in cloth and we don’t pay any extra. Modern cloth nappies look just like disposables, you just have Velcro tabs or poppers.

@katnyps

You don't necessarily need a tumble drier for reusable nappies - but it might depend if you have space for an extra clothes area at home. I think a lot of people might say no when the answer is actually yes... they just don't want the inconvenience. There are those that won't though, for sure. There are more eco friendly disposables - I think we should be looking to see how those can be made more affordable but often a tax on the worse option is the only way to do that!

I used reusables for both of mine. I did get a tumble dryer, thinking I'd need that, but hardly ever used it. I bought a fair amount of the nappies second hand so the outlay wasn't that much, and spread over 2 kids was really minimal. Yes they weren't necessarily convenient. I did however have 6 months maternity leave first time round, and worked part time after mat leave for 2nd one so that was helpful. But it wasn't convenient, it was a commitment but I still thought it was worth it.

For trips away etc I did sometimes buy disposables but bought "eco friendly" ones. They were quite pricey so I can see why they aren't (yet) a viable alternative for full time use for anyone on a budget.

Equally I absolutely get why people will want to use disposables.

If you are in a relationship where you feel like needing to “resolve ingrained societal inequalities in a patriarchal system” then what are doing in that relationship anyway? Who do you want to solve that for you?
I’m not. Plenty of women are in unequal relationships, though, and no one can be so obtuse as to think the answer is simply “Don’t be, then” or “Make your DH change”. And my comment was quite clearly not about resolving patriarchal inequalities within the context of a single relationship, but the idea that women are supposed to bear the burden of nappy washing AND the burden of fixing that washing as a group.

@User875906 no, modern nappies generally have something like fleece inner or liner. You stuff the bamboo or cotton inserts into the pocket so they don’t touch the babies skin.

Tax them to the high heavens. As the rest of us are worrying about single use coffee cups or infinitely recyclable aluminium coffee pods a single baby is using tens of non biodegradable nappies a week that will take 6 generations to degrade. It needs addressing.

Reusable is an option. Nappy services are an option. Laundromats are an option. Drying reusables on a clothes horse is an option. Line drying is an option.

Tampons and pads I agree. Most of my friends have now moved to moon cups or period pants.

Pretty much every baby pre the 60's managed to live life with the supposed trauma of cloth nappies.

.And my comment was quite clearly not about resolving patriarchal inequalities within the context of a single relationship, but the idea that women are supposed to bear the burden of nappy washing AND the burden of fixing that washing as a group

What is a group made of? Individual relationships.

HRTFT yet but slightly different perspective from what I've read so far.
It's all well and good to say just use reusable stuff but spare a thought for all the SEN parents out there (including myself) who can't use reusables if the child won't tolerate them.
We have had to use disposables with my kids (both SEN) and the youngest is 6 and still in them. I've been buying nappies for a decade now and the price of that is already extortionate. Why should people who can't use reusables for whatever reason be punished? Why should I have to pay more when I have no other option?

@Malin52

Tax them to the high heavens. As the rest of us are worrying about single use coffee cups or infinitely recyclable aluminium coffee pods a single baby is using tens of non biodegradable nappies a week that will take 6 generations to degrade. It needs addressing.

Reusable is an option. Nappy services are an option. Laundromats are an option. Drying reusables on a clothes horse is an option. Line drying is an option.

Tampons and pads I agree. Most of my friends have now moved to moon cups or period pants.

Pretty much every baby pre the 60's managed to live life with the supposed trauma of cloth nappies.

Out of curiosity how many women with kids had full time jobs in the sixties, how many spent a disproportionate amount of time washing and cleaning?

Governments should incentivise biodegradable nappies. Whacking a tax on nappies is not going to make everyone suddenly stop using them, they are convenient and easy and cheaper and less labour intensive than washables.

How are people on a budget going to afford the initial outlay for washable nappies for their babies? Are we then all going to have to fork out for dryers, won't loads of people suddenly buying up and using dryers have an effect on the environment?

This is going to disproportionately negatively affect women, mostly working women on lower income.