To tell DSis we don't want another joint holiday with her family?

[bravefox]

Just returned from a holiday which was my family, my parents, and DSis's family all together for the first time. DSis and I both have two young kids and ages are similar so we hoped they would hit it off but it was just extremely hard work from start to finish.

While I knew it wasn't going to be the most relaxing of times, the biggest issue was that DSis and I have completely contrasting parenting styles with her kids staying up most of the night, grazing on junk all day and one of her kids in particular pretty much bullied my DD all week. My kids were miserable whenever both families hung out together as DSis and her H just turn a blind eye to what their kids are up to and it was left to the rest of us to supervise most of the time. DH and I have pretty much vowed not to holiday with them again for a very long time, if ever.

I'm very happy with this, but now they are suggesting we repeat again at Christmas! We have no other family so it will be hard to make an excuse but we'd rather just be on our own than repeat all of that again!

AIBU to say we don't want to holiday together again, and if so how do I do it diplomatically?

Don't lie. Agree to try again in say 4-5 years time but make it a long-weekend minibreak then not a full week. Its ok to say that you found it too hard work and stressful and that the kids didn't really get on well enough to do a repeat performance so soon.

I think you should just explain that you didn't find it a very relaxing holiday, and that you'd prefer not to repeat that sort of holiday very frequently. I don't think there's any need to explicitly blame her or her family for the shit time you had, but you can imply it by telling her how much hard work you found it, and that you'd prefer a different sort of holiday for a few years.

@AlrightThereSkippy

"we want to spend Christmas Eve at home this year so kids can open presents in the morning"

I went on one big family holiday with sil's kids and in-laws. Never, EVER again. It isn't a bad thing, having boundaries tbh. If you make yourself go and things are awful again, you risk a big fall out. If you avoid, you are less likely to actually fall out. Boundaries aren't usually there to put distance between you, but to make it possible to have a decent relationship.

Exactly. It's a version of 'good fences make good neighbours'. You don't choose your family, so boundaries are essential to keep the peace. Better to be less involved but stay friendly, than get more involved and fall out. And if anyone bullied kids of mine, there really would be a falling out.

I'm not surprise they want to go again, sounds like your sister had a lovely relaxing time while everyone else picked up the slack.

"No can do, we are saving for X so can't afford to go away again"

"No, we are planning a family Christmas at home this year"

"No, I/DH have to work over Christmas as others have booked it off"

Failing that "No thanks, your kids are a nightmare and you're a lazy fucker"

A simple thanks but no thanks Sil we have made and finalised our own plans sorry...should suffice.

@peboh

Just tell her no, and tell her why. I couldn't imagine having to come up with an excuse instead of just being honest with my sister. What happens when she mentions a spring holiday, summer etc. The cycle of lies and excuses continues and eventually the truth will come out and will hurt more.

👍 This exactly. The more you lie and the longer you lie, the more you are twisted and can't get out of it. She will keep asking until you tell her the TRUTH.

"That's a lovely idea, but we like to celebrate Christmas the same way each year and the DCs are already looking forward to it. Going away then wouldn't work for us." Or, "I love you all very much, but having to take extra people into consideration all the time isn't something I find relaxing. Could we come back to the idea in a few years when the DCs are older/DH and I are less stressed?"

Fair fucks to you Sami. There is no way I would ever say the example I gave to my in-laws. You've got bigger balls / ovaries than I do! I also love my DH who would not have a nice time if I said that, so it's possible I'd be more outspoken with my actual siblings.

I’m in “cheery blunt” camp. I would say that to be honest you didn’t find it relaxing as your styles were very different. And I would give her examples that they slept late and often left kids with you if asked what you’ve meant.
I would mention bullying issue anyway because it’s better to be addressed.

Just say no thanks we want to holiday on our own and hope you enjoy your holiday too

I would just say "No thanks ,we like to be together at home ,just us at Christmas" If she pushes you just say "kids are different and although we had some good days on holiday ,maybe go away by ourselves next year I think" You dont need to start lying .Possibly best with this response as come new year they may be pressing for 2022 bookings!

@KihoBebiluPute

Don't lie. Agree to try again in say 4-5 years time but make it a long-weekend minibreak then not a full week. Its ok to say that you found it too hard work and stressful and that the kids didn't really get on well enough to do a repeat performance so soon.

I like this explanation. It’s honest while not being too blunt.

OP, it sounds like you had a rubbish week - and definitely spent more time than you ought to in looking after your sister’s kids. That said, though, your parents may well want to holiday with all their grandchildren in the future, extended family relationships can be rewarding (though they can take work) and so I wouldn’t write off the family holiday dynamic full stop.

Tell your sister that going again wont work for you unless you agree some rules - like no sloping off to read/bathe etc without prior arrangement/returning the favour, and an agreement of how to deal with bullying between the cousins.

I’m not condoning bullying but I had a troubled relationship with my cousin for some years as kids and it felt like bullying some of the time. As we grew, though, things straightened out and we are now like sisters. You may find that if properly handled the dynamic between your daughter and her cousin will improve.

They sound like CFs!

What age are all the children?
Didn’t your parents say anything to them after they first started disappearing?

Definitely say no to Christmas and any other holiday plans. I can see that telling them the truth about why would create a big issue/feud so I understand backing away from it rather than confronting their poor parenting.

Never say never (even if you think it), give yourselves space to make up your minds, without explanation, as and when you like.

Just say you've planned a cosy little Christmas with your own family, or might be doing something with the ILs - whatever is actually true.

The difficulty might come about with your own parents and who spends Christmas with them. Can you talk to them? Would they take turns, or not be sympathetic or willing to commit to that (fair enough). Will that be an issue this year?

dear sis

It was a different type of holiday for us and its not worked the way we thought,Im sure you'll agree it was a great holiday but stressful. probably best we don't repeat as I think we could all end up falling out and that would be such a shame. A weekend break or an overnight stay is fine but a holiday is a different matter. love you lots

@AlrightThereSkippy

For me, if I'd said "well SIL, you're quite insensitive and you and bil drink too much. You refuse to parent your own children and offload them at ever opportunity. Add to that, you're all quite rude and inhospitable people with bad manners" it would go down like a lead balloon. So I would tell "THE TRUTH", which is that I'd rather spend Christmas Eve in my own house so kids can open presents. That is also "THE TRUTH", just ommitting the nastier ones. But you do you Sami.

Exactly this. Tell her you found the summer holiday hard work and Christmas won’t be happening. Just make sure the reasons you give are only about you and your feelings. Don’t mention anything about her or her families behaviours because that’s not something you can control and they’ll tell you why you’re “ wrong”. It’s also too late to point these things now. Bullying behaviour, getting dumped with kids etc should have been mentioned at the time they happened.

@IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves

Bugger diplomatically. Tell her you found it all quite hectic and stressful and have realised you prefer to go away just by yourselves.

Absolutely this! ^

@bravefox

Tell her 'sorry sis but it was such a struggle for me with all the kids together, and it made me quite exhausted to be honest. I couldn't cope with it again. Big family holidays are not my cup of tea.'

You don't have to mention what utter horrors her kids are!

Sorry if it's been said already, (I haven't RTFT,) but it sounds to me like she knows her kids are a pain in the arse, and is finding someone to dump them on.

I know a few people with badly behaved, unruly, disruptive kids like this, and they do seem to love dumping/pushing them onto others, in the guise of 'Conor/Jade would LOVE to play at YOUR house.'

Many of them seem oblivious to how badly their children behave, and the fact it's affecting others. I don't understand why. I don't get it at all. (Although, as I said, I am convinced some people know their children are hard work, and farm them out to suckers who will look after them/tolerate them!!!)

It's like the parents of the school bully(s.) No matter what, they insisted THEIR child could never - and WOULD never be a bully. Totally in denial. And really bad parenting.

To avoid a rift, like many PPs have said I’d advise against telling harsh hometruths and just blame it on the hectic ness of having lots of children together.

Alternatively…I don’t know if this would apply to your personality OP but I’m quite introverted (as in need alone time to recharge) so I have in the past said that the dynamic of group holidays don’t really work as I need a proper rest, especially after a difficult time managing XY or Z situation. I emphasise how I love to catch up with everyone and that maybe a weekend would work.

Just say thanks for the offer but we just want a quiet Christmas on our own just the four of us this year.

That. No need to embroider it or go into long justifications. And certainly no need to bring up anything negative about the other holiday. Why upset people unnecessarily? My niece and nephew were horrendous to be with for a couple of years, and their parents' hands off style was really frustrating. But the kids turned out great and I have a great relationship with my SIL and BIL now. That wouldn't be the case if I'd given any indication that I didn't want to spend time with them because of their kids/parenting back then.

Keep it simple. There's absolutely nothing to argue with or pick apart in that simple sentence.

@Gilly12345

I would just have to be honest and tell tactfully that this was not a relaxing, enjoyable holiday and you would rather not repeat again for a long time and if she pushes the point with you explain how the children were not happy and it is not a holiday for you if you have to look after her children when she disappears and does their own thing.

This, it does my head in that people seem to think the only way to say no is to lie. A simple 'to be honest it didn't really work for us as it was a lot of work and not really a relaxing or enjoyable holiday so we'd rather shelve the idea of group holidays until all the kids are older and a bit more self sufficient' would suffice (and means that you don't have to lie/find another excuse next year, and the year after)

Even without the tricky family dynamic i personally wouldn't want to go away over Christmas. Can't you just say that? Kids are worried Santa won't know where to find us kind of thing. Or just a simple we aren't up for that but let's plan a day/meal/party/however you usually celebrate when you are back.

A "Sorry our plans are made and not changeable. Have a great time and looking forward to hearing about it" would be my answer.

@gigi556

It's your sister.... just tell her how you feel! 🤷🏻‍♀️

This. Also during the holiday when they left their children with you/your parents to have a lie in why didn’t you send the children to wake their parents up when they were misbehaving? Same when they were ignoring bad behaviour, you could just have said something «DSis would you mind preventing Tom from hitting Bella please?»

@IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves

Bugger diplomatically. Tell her you found it all quite hectic and stressful and have realised you prefer to go away just by yourselves.

I'm sure OP's parents will be heaving a sigh of relief to be spared having to think up their own excuse :-)

@IveGotASongThatllGetOnYNerves

Bugger diplomatically. Tell her you found it all quite hectic and stressful and have realised you prefer to go away just by yourselves.

Tbh, this is factual, shuts down the possibility of her pestering and is honest. Quiet Christmas is what you’ve got your sights set on