The house buying process just sucks any joy there is out of buying a new home.

[flashbac]

Yes I know renting can be dire and buying a house in this crazy market is increasingly becoming like something for the privileged but can I just have a moan about how flipping joy-sucking the bloody English process is?
I want a pack I can view that has a survey report, the land registry stuff, the epc, the search reports and any other relevant documents relating to the property and its condition, before I make an offer. Is that too much to ask for?

Never so happy to be Scottish as when these threads come up. The English process seems actively cruel at times, wasteful, and dare I say stupid?
YANBU OP

At the risk of being that annoying person… I don’t get why it takes so long in England. 6-8 weeks is standard in Scotland, could even be as little as 4. All houses for sale are listed with a home report, equivalent to a basic survey, along with an energy report and seller questionnaire (which it’s illegal to lie on and covers things like whether there’s planning permission for conversions etc).
There’s still no reason you can’t have your own more in-depth survey, and the home report has to be up to date.

Sealed bids are more common but ‘offers over’ and ‘fixed price’ are not uncommon.
Gazumping/gazundering can happen but are pretty rare mostly due to the time line involved.

I’ve never had a house purchase/sale take more than 6 weeks, never had an issue with gazumping etc and the solicitors are well versed on the likely price if you have to go to sealed bids with a closing date (rarely more than a week or two later)

@FiveShelties

It s a dreadful system and I cannot understand why it takes so long. I was amazed when I moved to NZ and you can get a house sale through in about 10 days, which includes all due diligence. You make an offer in writing which has the clauses in which you want, such as searches and getting finance etc, the seller agrees or amends and then you both sign - usually this is on the same day as the offer. You then have around 10-14 days to get everything in place and you complete as per the agreed date. It is fantastic.

Wow, that is amazing!

I hate the system in England and Wales. It takes so long that the property value can change significantly between offer and completion. An estate agent told me that one in three sales fall through.

I’d love it if some experts from NZ came over and helped us to create a system that works.

Never heard about the HIP & was quite young & not looking at houses then. It's baffling that it wasn't seen a good thing. Reading the link it seems the opposition was based on those who have shit practices wanting to carry on being shit 👍🏼

I want a pack I can view that has a survey report, the land registry stuff, the epc, the search reports and any other relevant documents relating to the property and its condition, before I make an offer. Is that too much to ask for?

when we bought in forrin that's exactly how it went.
however it was expensive. we had to engage and pay an independent estate agent who arranged additional surveys and also transfer of utilities. they also checked the property at completion and took meter readings.
the seller paid their own estate agent to ensure everything went fine.

the process was so smooth and quick though, totally worth the money.

Lots of people put off moving because the shit show that it is. Too much hassle.

Well conveyancing is the absolute cross of the legal world so it only really attracts shit solicitors who aren't good at anything else - it really is donkey work.

I'm a rural surveyor in estate management and so I sell the odd house as part of my job. I manage for big charitable clients who have absolutely no idea about the property they're selling which has usually been tenanted for a long time. They have NO idea about the house they're selling and usually I have limited knowledge outside of the title deeds. It always takes an age to sell because the conveyancers are usually incapable of reviewing a title properly, no one will commit to completing the enquiries and seven months down the line someone finds the septic tank in the garden serves four other properties and isn't compliant. It is a complete nightmare.

@Cattenberg - it is fabulous and makes a very stressful situation much easier.

The stress in the UK between offer and exchange is dreadful, I have bought and sold about 7 properties in the UK and three in NZ (we have moved a lot!) and the UK ones have been so stressful that I stopped believing anything the buyers ever said and just waited for the sale/chain to fall over.

I cannot understand why it has not been brought up to date - it must be tough for the conveyancing solicitors to work with such stressed buyers/sellers. Although I must admit I have dealt with some really bad solicitors.

I would not be happy with a survey ordered by the home owner. It couldn’t be truly impartial. I suspect mortgage companies would feel the same.

But I don’t understand why land searches take so long. This is probably showing the depths of my ignorance, but surely it’s just a few clicks on a database somewhere?

I like this proposal. Reckon a petition or something could give it traction? The current system is appalling.

hoa.org.uk/campaigns/end-home-selling-chaos/

Agreed.

Relative in Canada, 6 weeks from going on the market to moving in to new home. They were divorcing and selling the family home to buy 2 separate properties too so not totally straight forward.

We've been in chains twice in England, both times it's taken 2 years from going on the market to actually moving. Both times having several chains fail. Other countries do property buying and selling so much better than us

@Youseethethingis I agree. My answer to house purchase and all the traumas it causes is let's have the same as in Scottish Law. Simple to implement.

I expect if one of your local estate agents caught fire, as long as no-one was hurt, many people would either laugh or at least shed no tears.

I see nine estate agents have voted.

😆

The home report in Scotland is done by an independent company and they’d lose their license if they missed out things. It’s very clearly set out what is and isn’t included and each element is ‘rated’ as to its condition and whether repairs are needed now, soon or it’s in good condition.

There is nothing at all to stop the buyer getting a full survey done if they wish, but the home report and valuation are accepted by mortgage lenders and you generally cannot sell a house without it. The seller has 9 days to provide one if it’s not included with the schedule or on the solicitors website.

@Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies

I would not be happy with a survey ordered by the home owner. It couldn’t be truly impartial. I suspect mortgage companies would feel the same.

But I don’t understand why land searches take so long. This is probably showing the depths of my ignorance, but surely it’s just a few clicks on a database somewhere?

Many years ago I was friendly with a clerk at the solicitors doing my conveyancing and went with him when he carried out the searches on my purchase. This was before the days of the Internet and it still took us under an hour at the local town hall to carry out all the necessary searches. Nowadays it must be even faster.

Incidentally I was also friends with the solicitor at the practice who was handling the conveyancing.I'm sorry to say that she was as incompetent and slow as every other conveyancer I have ever dealt with.

www.mygov.scot/buying-a-home/home-report

@chickenbasket

Well conveyancing is the absolute cross of the legal world so it only really attracts shit solicitors who aren't good at anything else - it really is donkey work.

I'm a rural surveyor in estate management and so I sell the odd house as part of my job. I manage for big charitable clients who have absolutely no idea about the property they're selling which has usually been tenanted for a long time. They have NO idea about the house they're selling and usually I have limited knowledge outside of the title deeds. It always takes an age to sell because the conveyancers are usually incapable of reviewing a title properly, no one will commit to completing the enquiries and seven months down the line someone finds the septic tank in the garden serves four other properties and isn't compliant. It is a complete nightmare.

I briefly wanted to become a conveyancer. A solicitor acquaintance put me off. He said that all of his colleagues who worked in Conveyancing were trying to get out of it.

He explained that these days, mortgage lenders make the conveyancer take on the legal risk of anything going wrong. (I can’t remember his exact words TBH, but it sounded like a very stressful job).

I haven't bought a house for years , but I thought they did bring in a buyers report thing years ago and it was stopped as it didn't work that well ? I remember an old acquaintance of mine having to do all this and she moaned it was even worse. Was many years ago though..
the system is broken : I know a few people trying to buy and sell and it's been hell for them , mostly solicitors holding up things or long chains breaking down.
I feel for anyone buying these days.
Expensive too.

Completely agree with you OP! As my username suggests I'm in the middle of buying and selling at the moment, and fingers crossed I will be moved by a few months time. But still no idea if I actually will because everything is so slow, relies on quite a lengthy chain keeping together and general frustration at everything.

I compeletely agree about the HIP idea - it seems SO BLOODY OBVIOUS. Everyone wants all of those things and it's so strange these are all done after the offer and then people end up pulling out for various reasons which just frustrates everyone along the process.

I honestly do not know anyone who thinks it's a good system.

The problem is so many people don’t instruct local firms of solicitors who understand the area and how to deal with pitfalls. There are so many national conveyancing companies with unqualified staff with far too many files to deal with. One particular one is based in India and the emails we receive from them are in appalling english and often don’t make sense. You get what you pay for. Our firm stopped taking on work when we were at capacity as we were not able to do the work properly. Most of these firms are run by accountants and are purely for high profits and the caseworkers have far to much work and are not allowed to decline anything. You get what you pay for.

It took 6 months for us to buy. We were renting and the house we were buying was empty. The hold up was the family arguing as they owed a hell of a lot of money in nursing home fees , so basically, unofficially we were buying from the NH. This was even before you had to have all these surveys done. We just had valuation as we knew house needed major update and land register things.

When buying in Bulgaria. 6 weeks from viewing to completion. We actually got the keys to the property on handing over the deposit. The hold up was the paperwork for the company we had to then set up. On completion day, we went with the sellers to the water and electricity boards to change details. Very easy.

Oh gosh yes that's so true @ILoveAllRainbowsx ! I'm fortunate my conveyancer and her assistant are both really good and on top of things.

But my agent when I sell will get paid around £3000, for photos, listing online, showing a few people around in 15 minute appointments, and then dealing with a few emails and phone calls. No requirement to be licensed or have any qualifications whatsoever.

My conveyancer will prepare legally binding contracts, is qualified and registered. And I'll be paying around £800 overall.

Shocking isn't it.

I agree that the conveyancing process needs a complete overhaul in England and Wales. I'm a conveyancing solicitor - I like to think I'm one of the good ones, but there are plenty that aren't. The system itself is extremely frustrating for us too.

The difficulty with Home Information Packs is that the searches go out of date - most lenders want searches that are no more than 6 months old at completion. Unless you sell your house within days of it going on the market then by the time you have gone through the whole process, the searches are likely to be out of date. The issue with them the first time round was that they didn't really consult solicitors on what would have been most helpful.

Similarly with copies of the title and property forms - the expectation is that they are all dated within 6 months - if they aren't and something significant has changed then it can take forever to establish this. Surveys can only be relied on by the person who instructs the surveyor. So if you see a survey prepared for the seller, and you rely on it but it's missing something major, you won't have any comeback on the surveyor. So it makes sense as a buyer to have your own carried out.

Until mortgage lenders change their requirements, unfortunately solicitors (who generally act for the lender as well as the buyer) have to make sure that all of the lenders requirements are satisfied which slows things down. There is a huge difference in how lenders respond to things - some respond by email the same day, or within a day or two. Some take weeks and will only fax or post correspondence. Most at the moment are still blaming Covid for everything, it can take hours to get through on the phone.

Then you get the solicitors who aren't willing to engage, collaborate or try to progress the matter. It's frustrating when they don't answer emails or you can only ever get through to their voicemail.

As a very rough guide, freehold transactions take around 8-10 weeks from receipt of contract papers to exchange, leasehold I'd say 10-12 weeks. Most are taking longer at the moment due to the sheer volume of work because of the SDLT holiday.

I would also say that at the moment most conveyancers are burnt out. The volume of work over the last 18 months has been insane and most that I know have been working 12-14 hour days, weekends etc. to try to meet expectations. We are all desperate for it to be 1st October. We are exhausted, fed up of clients and agents having unrealistic expectations, and just doing our best.

The other thing worth bearing in mind is cost. If you are only paying £500 for conveyancing fees, you won't be getting someone qualified dealing with your matter. Think how many files they will need to have to make any money. The more files they have, the less time they have for each client and the slower the process will be. I wouldn't expect conveyancing fees for a freehold purchase to be less than around £1,100 plus VAT and disbursements.

I find that the clients who want to know everything about everything are the ones whose transactions take the longest because I have to duplicate work and explain every minor detail to them. I don't have time to respond to every email immediately. If I've had an email, I'll get to it but don't need a phonecall chasing it up within an hour. If I'm reviewing a new build property or a leasehold one, it would take me 2-3 hours uninterrupted, depending on complexity. If I'm interrupted every 5 minutes, it can take days. I've been reviewing a leasehold transaction for 3 days, because the phone doesn't stop ringing and then I have to stop and deal with exchanges, completions, random enquiries, colleague enquiries, estate agents, mortgage brokers, clients, opposing solicitors, clients again, estate agents from elsewhere in the chain who can't get a response from the solicitors they are meant to be dealing with. Plus clients who drop into reception with documents but want 5 minutes to discuss their matter with me. Of course I don't mind taking the time to speak to them (or anyone who calls, as there is nothing more frustrating than not being able to speak to someone!) but it slows the process down enormously.