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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To hope to buy half of the downstairs flat's garden?

66 replies

buyingourfirstflat · 28/08/2021 07:57

DH and I are first time buyers and we have just had an offer accepted on our first flat. It's a one up, one down house conversion and both flats share the freehold.

I've been reading up on freehold mortgages and have realised they are harder to get so we might not even be able to proceed! But ignoring that for now...

We are hoping to purchase the upstairs flat which doesn't have a garden. The downstairs flat owns the garden, but it doesn't get used - you can see this and we have been told it too.

In a perfect scenario we would love to be able to own a section of the garden that we could fence off so its private from the person below - we were thinking we could offer the owner below money for it and have it changed on the freehold? Has anyone ever done this before and is it even possible?

Failing that, has anyone ever been in a similar situation with their neighbour and come to an agreement about just using the garden without changing ownership?

We are FTB so really don't have any idea what is even possible in legal terms, so any advice you could offer would be appreciated.

OP posts:
milian · 28/08/2021 08:05

It is possible, but will reduce the value of the downstairs flat especially in the current market so if I was the downstairs neighbour I wouldn’t do it (or at least not for cheap!). You would need to offer a realistic amount of money for it.

I wouldn’t buy assuming it is possible as you are reasonably likely to be disappointed.

Alternista · 28/08/2021 08:06

I think it’s massively unlikely unless you offer a LOT of money tbh.

burritofan · 28/08/2021 08:07

As pp says, selling half the garden to you reduces the value of the other flat hugely. You might not be able to afford it. I certainly wouldn’t sell even if I didn’t use the garden, because of the resale value/ballache. If you want a garden flat, buy one.

WhenwillSleephappen · 28/08/2021 08:10

If there is land at the front eg a driveway or garden - does that belong to the flat you want to buy?

As PP said you’d need to pay the current market price for it and if I owed the garden I would probably say no (unless it’s massive and I’d still have a decent sized garden if I wanted to sell)

OhSmellyCatSmellyCat · 28/08/2021 08:11

Them not using it is irrelevant . It would diminish the value of their property significantly so they'd probably be advised not to do this

Butchyrestingface · 28/08/2021 08:12

I think you might be able to offer money to have USE of the garden whilst you live there. Or, if the owner is real nice, might let you use it for free.

I take there IS communal access to the garden? My friend lived in a 3 storey conversion in London and the ground floor flat was the only property with access to the garden, via a kitchen door. They also owned the garden exclusively.

What you are suggesting would undoubtedly devalue the property so unless you were offering to buy my FLAT as well, I'd say no chance.

LawnFever · 28/08/2021 08:12

You can ask, and they can say no - how would you access it? Isn’t the access via the downstairs flat?

I doubt they’d go for it, if you want a flat with a garden keep looking until you find one, this doesn’t sound like a great idea.

daisypond · 28/08/2021 08:15

I know someone who did it the other way round. A house converted into two flats but the garden was shared between the flats - just one garden, not divided up. The lower flat (my friend) bought the other share of the garden from the upper flat. It cost a lot (this was in London but a few years ago).

LakieLady · 28/08/2021 08:16

No harm in asking and I'm sure it would be possible, but may be surprisingly costly.

But why not just look for a flat that's already got a garden? They're not that uncommon.

HarkeyQuim · 28/08/2021 08:16

Can’t you buy a different flat? It seems silly to buy one without a gardening if you want a garden and actually have available money for a garden which you are going to offer to the garden owner.

Flowerlane · 28/08/2021 08:18

I can’t see how this would work? Surely the flat downstairs has access to it only. How would you block their door? That’s a lot of work needed to have their flat door blocked off for them also, they wouldn’t want to pay for it and have all the disruption. Also their windows must look out onto the garden? You can’t block windows.

Can not see them agreeing to this and practically it just wouldn’t work anyway.

Zampa · 28/08/2021 08:20

The buyers of the flat above mine wanted to buy some of the garden into which only I had access (garden solely mine on the deeds too). I would have considered it but only if they had been prepared to pay a lot to compensate me for both loss of amenity and the reduction in value of my flat (which would have been silly money on a Zone 2 London flat).

If you are really interested, offer the most you can afford. The other party can only say no .

Original poster
buyingourfirstflat · 28/08/2021 08:20

Thanks everyone, really good to get some perspective on this and has given us a bit more understanding! Smile

There is communal access to the garden as it is accessed by a side gate. We own a storage area inside the gate but we haven't seen this yet but are going back this weekend so will see it then.

I'd be more than happy to pay her a fee to just have use of the garden, and we'd also do all the upkeep etc. which would mean she wouldn't have to pay someone else - we've been told she pays a gardener once a year to just come and cut everything back.

We'll forget about the buying half idea and will keep the 'renting' idea in the back of our pocket, we'll wait to see how things are when we move in as it's not a dealbreaker for us and I would rather have a good neighbour relationship!

Thanks everyone Smile

OP posts:
Blossomandbee · 28/08/2021 08:21

I'm struggling to imagine how you'd divide it and make it private from the downstairs flat. You could always ask, but I would imagine it would be expensive. Land isn't cheap and there would be legal costs.
As someone else has said, why not find a flat with a garden if that's what you want.

KihoBebiluPute · 28/08/2021 08:24

Find a different property with a flat.

The legal fees for thd change of ownership would be ruinously expensive on top whatever you had to pay thd neighbour, which would have to be significantly more than the drop in value to their property, to be worth their while to bother. The value of your property would not increase by anything close to the amount it costs you so you would be throwing money away. Much cheaper to buy a flat with a garden.

Barton10 · 28/08/2021 08:24

If the downstairs property has a mortgage on it the lender will need to agree and release part of their charge over the garden. They may not agree as it will devalue the property and there may not be enough equity left to cover the outstanding amount.

Bimblybomeyelash · 28/08/2021 08:25

If you want a garden then you would be unwise to buy a flat without one!

daisypond · 28/08/2021 08:25

I’ve realised I know someone else that just gradually acquired use of the garden over time - they had access from an upper external staircase. But the lower flat never used the garden or did any upkeep. It eventually became just my friend’s garden- not legally, just through use. Everyone was renting, so there was no question of ownership.

Notcontent · 28/08/2021 08:27

I think you need to assume that you cannot have access. Even if the neighbour doesn’t use her garden, she might not be keen for others to use it, because of privacy and noise issues.

Pipersouth · 28/08/2021 08:29

Be prepared for them to say no to everything. We used to have a communal garden and it’s one of the reasons we moved as I hated having people sunbathing/ smoking/talking just by our windows and with no rights to stop it. I would definitely say no to anyone asking for access (even paid) to a private space even if I didn’t use it sorry I know it’s selfish!

Doubledoorsontogarden · 28/08/2021 08:33

Go and view more flats before committing to this one.

CatandBat638 · 28/08/2021 08:37

If you value a garden
Buy a flat with a garden included

Or buy a flat near to a park or open space

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 28/08/2021 08:41

They might agree, if they never use it and would rather have the money.

I’m sure it’s been done in an area where we have a 1905 maisonette, one of just two. There are a lot similar in the area (SW London) and were evidently all built with private small gardens/outside spaces, split in half with access for the upper one down a flight of steps, usually from the kitchen.

However through nosing a lot on Rightmove I have seen a few where the garden is double the size and belongs solely to one or the other.

Especially since Covid, though, any outside space is more highly prized so TBH I’d be surprised if anyone agreed to it. There is also the factor of privacy and potential noise right outside their back windows.

Carboncheque · 28/08/2021 08:42

’If you value a garden Buy a flat with a garden included’

This ^

Cherrysoup · 28/08/2021 08:43

Find somewhere else to buy.