To hope to buy half of the downstairs flat's garden?

[buyingourfirstflat]

DH and I are first time buyers and we have just had an offer accepted on our first flat. It's a one up, one down house conversion and both flats share the freehold.

I've been reading up on freehold mortgages and have realised they are harder to get so we might not even be able to proceed! But ignoring that for now...

We are hoping to purchase the upstairs flat which doesn't have a garden. The downstairs flat owns the garden, but it doesn't get used - you can see this and we have been told it too.

In a perfect scenario we would love to be able to own a section of the garden that we could fence off so its private from the person below - we were thinking we could offer the owner below money for it and have it changed on the freehold? Has anyone ever done this before and is it even possible?

Failing that, has anyone ever been in a similar situation with their neighbour and come to an agreement about just using the garden without changing ownership?

We are FTB so really don't have any idea what is even possible in legal terms, so any advice you could offer would be appreciated.

I've been reading up on freehold mortgages and have realised they are harder to get so we might not even be able to proceed! But ignoring that for now...

Leaving everything else aside, you do know there's a difference between a freehold flat (bad) and a leasehold flat with a share of the freehold (pretty good), right? (Not trying to be an arse, just genuinely wasn't sure from your post).

Find another flat.

I’d agree, you’ve literally nothing in your back pocket. Who is telling you they don’t use it etc? The sellers? You need to accept you’re buying a top floor flat with no garden and no use of one nor are you ever going to habe use of one. What you’re suggesting is incredibly intrusive.

@Bimblybomeyelash

If you want a garden then you would be unwise to buy a flat without one!

This

@daisypond

I’ve realised I know someone else that just gradually acquired use of the garden over time - they had access from an upper external staircase. But the lower flat never used the garden or did any upkeep. It eventually became just my friend’s garden- not legally, just through use. Everyone was renting, so there was no question of ownership.

This is hardly comparable? There was no transfer of ownership, your friend's landlord would not have been able to sell her flat with use of the garden as part of the deal.

This is a daft idea @buyingourfirstflat.
Are you looking at this flat as “the one” and it’s totally covering your eyes to the flaws?
Are there really no more flats/houses with a garden you could consider?
I would search again, sorry.

Hi all, I have heard the message loud and clear that this isn't an option and is something that is never done. I really just wanted to know if it was a stupid idea that this would be a possibility (which I can see that it is) or if anyone had ever done anything similar (which they haven't).

Having a garden isn't a dealbreaker for us, we had just mentioned this in passing as 'I wonder if that would ever be a possibility?' kind of way.

We are FTB, we are still getting to grips with navigating this new world to us and we are going to unfortunately ask stupid questions and have ideas that we will be told are stupid. I appreciate your input and can now just confirm I have fully understood this isn't possible so the thread has served its purpose. Thank you

The side issue that I don't think has been covered upthread is that this idea had the potential to upset your new neighbours before you had even moved in, which you may have repented at leisure.

Neighbours can be funny buggers have different histories, situations and outlooks, so my advice would be to maintain a polite distance. Trying to muscle in on the garden of someone you don't even know could have offended them for many different reasons.

@GreyhoundG1rl

You can ask, but they'd be nuts to agree.

Having thought about it, I would not be impressed if new neighbours asked me buying OR renting/using my garden and would likely think they were CF. For the simple reason, if you want access to a garden, don't buy a flat that comes without one.

I would be disinclined even to let other occupiers use my private garden on an ad hoc basis, I think. My concern would be about what happens when I try to sell my own flat, and prospective buyers possibly get wind of the fact someone else in the building has informal usage of my garden. Will that put them off, if they want to revoke the other occupier's access, and worry about causing friction with their new neighbours immediately on moving in?

Too much potential hassle, I'm afraid.

Op, think about it logically. It doesn’t matter if you’re first time buyers, you both must be adults who have lived in homes before, either rented, with parents or both, if the neighbours in any of these situations said can I buy or rent your garden what would have been the response 😃

I’ve a large garden the bottom is barely visible never mind used, if a neighbour said to me can I buy or rent it I’d laugh, firstly it would greatly reduce my properties either way and secondly I don’t want to go out there and people are in my garden, and I certainly wouldn’t wish them maintaining it, I’d rather hire a professional if I couldn’t do it myself rather than have someone clueless doing it to their tastes.

Don't buy this flat. Hold out for one with a garden. It will work out way more expensive for you long term as you will want to move sooner if you don't have a garden.

There are lots of flats in London where each flat has a share of the garden - typically there's a fenced off path along the side of the downstairs section of garden leading to the upstairs section.

So it's not beyond the realms.

That said, I've never moved somewhere where that wasn't already the case. When I lived in a garden flat, the upstairs neighbours made subtle and not so subtle hints about how lucky we were and how they'd love to be able to use it.

It was annoying and we didn't let them use it.

There are lots of flats in London where each flat has a share of the garden - typically there's a fenced off path along the side of the downstairs section of garden leading to the upstairs section.
Developers often do this, to make the upstairs flat more desirable.
It doesn't follow that someone who's already bought the garden flat would be remotely on board with selling half of it on.

@GreyhoundG1rl

There are lots of flats in London where each flat has a share of the garden - typically there's a fenced off path along the side of the downstairs section of garden leading to the upstairs section. Developers often do this, to make the upstairs flat more desirable. It doesn't follow that someone who's already bought the garden flat would be remotely on board with selling half of it on.

I'm talking about Victorian villas which have been converted.

But I agree that it's unlikely the flat with the garden is going to want to share or sell!

Agree with a PP you need to be clear what the “freehold mortgage” is. Share of freehold, great. Freehold flat - could mean it’s a no-go. My solicitor only discovered that the flat I was buying was the latter after I paid for surveys and everything The extra cost of having to go to a specialist mortgage provider meant really it would only be suitable for cash buyers, so that whole thing fell through…

Typically a flat with a garden is much more expensive, outside space comes at a premium, no matter how small that space is.

A garden is clearly on the wish list for th op, as she’s eyeing up the neighbours, but I’d hazard a guess if she had the budget for a flat with a garden she’d be buying one.