To hope to buy half of the downstairs flat's garden?

[buyingourfirstflat]

DH and I are first time buyers and we have just had an offer accepted on our first flat. It's a one up, one down house conversion and both flats share the freehold.

I've been reading up on freehold mortgages and have realised they are harder to get so we might not even be able to proceed! But ignoring that for now...

We are hoping to purchase the upstairs flat which doesn't have a garden. The downstairs flat owns the garden, but it doesn't get used - you can see this and we have been told it too.

In a perfect scenario we would love to be able to own a section of the garden that we could fence off so its private from the person below - we were thinking we could offer the owner below money for it and have it changed on the freehold? Has anyone ever done this before and is it even possible?

Failing that, has anyone ever been in a similar situation with their neighbour and come to an agreement about just using the garden without changing ownership?

We are FTB so really don't have any idea what is even possible in legal terms, so any advice you could offer would be appreciated.

Renting is a good idea if you can't buy but bear in mind if they change their mind or sell all bets may be off on the garden front so beware

Even if they agreed to let you use it subsequent owners might not. If you want a garden don’t buy the flat.

I’m getting CF vibes from this post. You can’t assume to rent or have use of it in any way. It’s not yours. If you want a flat with a garden buy one. It sounds like you’ve already set your sights on it.

@PurBal

Even if they agreed to let you use it subsequent owners might not. If you want a garden don’t buy the flat.

This /\/\

There's so much potential for this to go wrong. If you want a garden then you need to buy a property with a garden.

It has been done. DBro owned a downstairs garden flat in S London. The upstairs flat owned the far end of the far end of the garden. The garden was separated by a fence. It was an end terrace, so the garden had side access.

@BikeRunSki

It has been done. DBro owned a downstairs garden flat in S London. The upstairs flat owned the far end of the far end of the garden. The garden was separated by a fence. It was an end terrace, so the garden had side access.

Forgot to say…. This was already in place when DBro bought the flat, and both halves of the garden were a decent size.

If I were you I would offer to maintain the garden in exchange for using it. Then over time, maybe suggest buying?

It's possible but you'll have to offer a LOT of money.

If they give up half their garden, it could substantially reduce the value of their property, so it won't be easy to persuade them.

They may be more likely to agree to access rights or even to rent a part of the garden out to you.

I think you need to consider that you won’t be able to use the garden. Do you still want the flat? If they do let you that is a bonus but shouldn’t be assumed.

I don’t think that they’re being a CF. They’re being naive. They’re offering to pay the owner rent for the right to make the neglected garden a lovely space. The owner could sell or stop the arrangement at any time. They’d be adding value to the neighbours flat and paying for the privilege. It could work out for them but the potential for them being screwed over is really high.

I’ve not heard of that happening - I would suggest buying a flat with a garden, also - share of the freehold won’t be a problem for the mortgage as long as it’s properly set up - it’s very common in London - we have owned three flats with share of the freehold.

I think it's unlikely they'll say yes. At the moment presumably they can walk around naked in most rooms and no one would see. That kind of stuff matters I think. There's no harm in asking though. We had a london basement flat with a really long thin garden, just as we're about to put it on the market a corner neighbour, the one right at the end, asked if he could buy the end bit of our garden. We would have sold him a few metres (for the right price) if he'd asked just six months earlier.

I would wait, save more and then go for a flat with a garden if that's what you want. Moving is so expensive and after this you lose all the FTB perks. Don't buy as soon as you can but buy for longevity.

’At the moment presumably they can walk around naked in most rooms and no one would see’

Well, that’s a whole new reason not to ‘rent’ their garden

If you would like use of a garden, then you really do need to buy a property with a garden. Did lockdown teach you nothing? Outside space is massively important. Don't buy a property without it, as even if you buy it now, you may not be able to resell it at a later date.

As pp said you can ask to rent or to buy but unless they are unhinged they will say no.

If you want a garden rhen you need to try to buy a property with one. This idea is ludicrous. No one wants to be in their home with the neighbours in their garden, what a loss of privacy and encroachment. Never mind future issues when they come to sell.

It doesn’t matter if they use it or not. It’s like asking if you can rent their living room as they are at work during the day.

If i was her I’d be worried that if i rented the garden out to you, you’d then try for some sort of ownership by usage at a later date, so I’d say no, sorry :(

I think the rent idea is less likely to be considered positively than the option to buy. They might not use the garden, but that doesn't mean the want people in it, peering at the inside of their home, making noise, having people over etc... I really can't imagine anyone agreeing to it.

Buying is likely to be a no, but you never know. They might be happy to relinquish the other side of the garden, especially if they need some cash for something else. If the garden is large enough, it might not lose out too much value.

You're rushing into this, it's not the right place for you. I wouldn't rent my garden out whether I used it or not.

Look for somewhere else and get your mortgage in principle sorted out first.

OP please do not ignore the suggestions that you buy somewhere else, it may seem like a lot of bother when you already have an offer accepted and a mortgage underway, but it would be time and effort well spent. If you are already wondering about a garden, I can assure you that you are going to regret this down the line.

If I were the other flat owner, there is no amount of money you could reasonably offer to persuade me to either sell or allow you to use the garden.

You can ask, but they'd be nuts to agree.

I agree - don’t go near it if you think you will be allowed some sort of access. I would never agree to it as the ground floor flat. You could start arguing some right of usage when they come to sell. Same as allowing someone to park on your drive as you don’t have a car - just don’t do it as it creates expectations.

Do they even want to sell? Just because they don't use it doesn't mean they don't want it.

I lived in a row of terraces where one had sold half their garden to the house behind. They were huge long gardens though.

I wouldn't buy the flat on the premise that you might be able to buy the garden if you really want it. They might say no.

No harm in asking though.

Don't wait until you've moved in. You've got literally nothing "in your back pocket". The answer will be a resounding no, guaranteed.

Do you know anyone who rents a garden? This is the wrong place but you're going to get swept away with it all anyway.