AIBU - no being able to forgive my MIL?

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I'm struggling a bit with this at the moment and it's really difficult because my DH thinks I'm being unreasonable and that I irrationally hold onto things - maybe I do, but I don't know how to let go of them, and they are starting to eat away at me.

So basically my MIL and I have had a difficult relationship at times. These are the main points I get stuck on (sorry for the very long post!)

About 5 years ago: About a week after my DH proposed (after being together for 5 years) we met up with his parents at this outdoor event. When we arrived I was in the car talking to my MIL's sister (who is really lovely). She works at a wedding venue so we were talking about how maybe we could look into it for our wedding. I was excited about being engaged and it was nice to talk about some plans, even though we weren't thinking about getting married for a year or so. My MIL came up to the car and I rang off the phone, said hello, and said oh I was just on the phone to your sister, we were talking about maybe using where she works as the wedding venue. My MIL cut me off and said 'Oh I don't want to talk about that now, why do we have to talk about that now?' and I was a bit surprised but said ok and we all walked together to the event. Then later she starts saying that we wouldn't be getting married for a while so we don't need to think about it now, why do I have to start planning so early, weddings are so expensive, why do you have to spend so much money (I hadn't booked anything at this point). I was kind of upset because I was excited about being engaged and this was the first time I'd seen my husband's parents since he proposed so I thought it would be nicer. Anyway, later she'd had a few drinks and started saying to my FIL - 'why haven't you ever asked me to marry you?' (they're not married)? and I was like 'ok I get it now, I don't think her reaction is actually to do with me' but I was kind of pissed off that she was taking the nice edge off being newly engaged for me. Later on we go back to their house for dinner, and through the whole dinner my MIL kept talking about how if I had children I wouldn't breastfeed and would 'just feed them from jars' how I wouldn't cook proper food for them - she kept going on about it and it really upset me - not because I think there is anything wrong with not breastfeeding etc, just that she meant it in a mean way towards me. I'm terrible at confrontation so didn't say anything, but got really upset in the car on the way home. My DH said he hadn't realised anything was wrong but he rang her and said that I was really upset and she came over and said sorry and was crying but that it was to do with something else (not sure why I was bearing the brunt of whatever else was going on but hey ho). I was still upset but decided to just move on with life.

Then, when we did eventually get married I really enjoyed organising it and making stuff. I spent quite a while on the table plan and consulted my husband about his family members and who should sit where because I didn't know some of them that well. The day before the wedding we were finishing everything off and family and friends came to help. My BIL saw the table plan and kicked up a fuss because he was sitting near some family members he didn't like (my husband hadn't mentioned anything about this). My BIL said he wouldn't sit there and literally moved his place name and knife and fork to the corner of another table but all the tables had 10 places so it was really squished in. I got upset and was saying that the meal is only an hour or 2 so couldn't he just deal with it for a couple of hours ( my BIL was in his mid 20s at this point) because I'd spent a lot of time making the table plan and the tables were equally laid out. My DH was being a bit wishy washy about it and not saying anything, and I got really upset and went and cried in the car BUT nobody knew I was there - while I was there I heard my MIL slagging me off to my husband, saying I should have thought about it more etc, my DH was pretty weak and didn't back me up. He found me eventually and I told him I had heard everything they had said, and was really angry and upset (the night before my wedding!). Only at that point did he go and say that his brother had to sit there, it would only be for a short amount of time etc. I was supposed to go for dinner with my bridesmaids but this whole event took over and I ended up having take away pizza at home with them and I spent the night before my wedding exhausted with a red puffy face.

Next - this is the most unforgivable thing and I don't think I will ever get over it. I have previously posted about it before on here: Last year I had a stillbirth. We live abroad now away from family. About a week after the birth my parents came to visit, they booked a hotel, they gave me space when I needed it (which was a lot) and were happy to just be there for me when I needed them to be and brought books to read when I needed the space. My BIL was very kind and offered to visit us and look after us/cook for a few days and he offered to stay in an Airbnb - in the end he didn't come but it was a really nice offer. My PIL came to visit and my husband said that they couldn't stay in our 1 bedroom apartment because I felt I needed the space to cry and grieve in private when I felt I had to. His Mum made a fuss about how they couldn't stay with us but booked somewhere else. They arrived the evening of our baby's funeral. The next day we met up and went out for a walk but his Mum kept bringing up the fact we said they couldn't stay in our flat. She also said ''you wouldn't expect your brother to stay in an airbnb would you?' and I felt like saying 'yes we would, but we didn't need to as he offered to stay in an airbnb because he isn't an horribly insensitive person like you.' but once again, I didn't say anything - I know I should've but I was in such a state after losing the baby, going through birth and burying our baby boy in a foreign country that I just wanted to get away from her. My husband didn't say much but to be fair he was also struggling and traumatised from the whole experience. I was absolutely livid and walked away and ignored her for the rest of the day. She kept saying 'oh we came too soon, you're not ready for us to visit' and I wanted to scream 'f**k you - it's your behaviour that's causing the problem' but I didn't. Also when they were here after losing the baby I was talking about my experience, and my MIL interrupted me to have a joke with my FIL about something he was doing in the kitchen, literally whilst I was in the middle of talking about my stillbirth. I cried a lot about that time because I felt that even after I had a stillbirth, she still had to be the centre of attention and that my needs came second.

Anyway, fast forward to now and I'm pregnant again - 8 months. It's been a tough time for me and my husband because we haven't seen any family since last year and the covid lockdowns and restrictions whilst grieving for a baby and dealing with the anxieties of being pregnant again have been hard. A few months ago we were hoping family could visit - My parents offered to stay in a hotel again but in the end due to delta I said no visitors from the UK as I wasn't vaccinated at that point. My parents just said 'ok no worries, we'll come when you feel ready'. Then I had to have a long and painful conversation with my PIL about it and my MIL kept on about how she wasn't scared of getting the virus, and comparing me to other pregnant family members (who's experiences are totally different from mine) and how they would be ok with it. I felt frustrated that I can't just say 'I don't want visitors at the moment because I'm pregnant and feel vulnerable and the numbers are going up in the UK' and she just accepts it. My husband literally said nothing the whole call and I got really angry afterwards because I am fed up of it only being me saying something.

So now I will be double vaccinated and my parents are visiting and my PIL would like to visit but my husband is afraid of telling them they can't stay here (I still don't want anyone to stay and especially not after the way they behaved last time.) My husband is currently off work sick due to stress (I think partially due to the difficult circumstances of the last year) and so I don't feel I can really push him on this right now but I really want to get it sorted.

As I write this I know that it's really up to my husband to deal with this but his mother is really overbearing and both he and his sister have quite bad anxiety I think from childhood trauma of having such an overbearing mum. Both my DH and FIL both just go along with it because it means their lives are easier. Also it's not like she's this horrible witch the whole time, she can be kind and generous and has helped us in different ways, but I think she always has to been the centre of attention and how she feels and what she wants to do is the most important thing to her.

I feel like she has messed up every major thing I've gone through with my husband with her selfishness and inability to think that other people may think differently to her. I don't want her to do the same with this experience with my rainbow baby but don't know how to stop it from happening. When I talk to my husband he says I should let things go but I said I will never let go of the stillbirth incident. I hate how he makes it seem like I am being overly sensitive (perhaps with the first 2 incidents but definitely not the third) and it's easier for him to shift everything on to me rather than just be firm with his mother - upsetting me is easier to deal with than upsetting his mum. I worry that in the future my MIL will want to do something dangerous (for example take small children in the car without a car seat - something she tried to do with our niece) and that my husband won't have the balls to stand up to her about it if I'm not there.

AIBU? If so, how do I work through this, and if not, how can I stop it from happening in the future. Would appreciate any advice!

It’s not just your husband who won’t stand up to her, you’re just the same. She has no issue with being rude but you sit and silently take it. Time to be direct.

The wedding planning is a pretty minor point, but I wonder whether you’re dwelling on it because you failed to handle it at the time. Her behaviour following the loss of your little boy was awful.

This time around, be clear with her. Let her know when she can visit. Let her know she needs to book accommodation. Let her know if that’s a problem, she doesn’t need to come.

Sounds like you've had a really tough time OP and your PIL have not helped in the slightest emotionally or practically. I am really sorry about the loss of your baby and congrats on your pregnancy - your attitude to vaccinations/visitors is totally understandable btw.

I think maybe the wedding stuff has stuck in your head because you're angry with your husband for not sticking up for you or angry with yourself for not confronting them.

I think this issue with MIL is going to continue unless something changes. This stuck out at me - upsetting me is easier than dealing with upsetting MIL. Perhaps it's time to make sure that isn't true.

@TestingTestingWonTooFree

yes you are right, and I know I am holding onto most of it because it hasn't ever been resolved.

I was pretty firm with her last time we spoke about not having visitors but it was a painfully drawn out conversation because my husband said nothing - she even asked him what he thought and he didn't say anything, which I felt undermined what I was saying. I know I need to be firmer when I speak to her.

@TheWholeWorld yes I agree with you. I don't feel like any of these incidents have been properly dealt with, on both mine and my husband's part but I don't know how to address them as they happened a while ago now and it feels like dredging up old stuff (but I can't let go of them)

I think you need to find a phase 'do you mean to be so rude' ' Well that was rude' 'harsh and rude' perhaps accompanied by a stop gesture with your hand and then walk away. Honestly you should avoid her like the plague you deserve better

You definitely have a husband problem, as well as a mil problem really, I say it as someone in a similar boat with being married into such a dynamic. But what you have to then accept is that if there are things/boundaries that are very important to you then it will be up to you to enforce them. There's two separate issues, your husband's unwillingness to take your side/stand up for you with her and mil herself. I've accepted my fate as being seen as the total bitch that my DH is married to, I don't care, I had to set and maintain boundaries with my mil for my sanity and to be of sound mind to parent my dc, and if that makes me a horrible person in her narcissistic eyes and her children/pawn's eyes too then so be it!

I would also suggest counselling together and separately if you haven't already had it

You need to work put what's important and what's not.

Eg your engagement. Important to you but not so much to anyone else other than 'that's nice'
Your child's funeral - her lack of empathy (which is terrible and I'm not minimising it) you are holding her to your standards of a caring person. Rise above it, she's not, you don't need to be to her either.
Forget the more minor points. Lay down the law for the major points in the future. Then stick to your guns and if she brings it up just change the subject and kill her with kindness.
Keep in mind you are hormonal and sensitive atm. Which is ok. You don't have to forgive her - and you can minimise contact. You don't have to do anything you don't want to.
Congratulations on being pregnant again. I can only imagine how difficult it must be at the moment.
Sending lots of good luck x

With regards to staying with you in a one bed. I would just take the angle of "Don't be ridiculous you know our place is too small and we never have anyone stay with us" route.

Stop trying to explain and appeal to her better nature just be blunt like she is.

I’m sorry about your son.

I agree that you need to find a way to stand up to her. If she starts saying something over and over just cut her off after the first time and say “so you’ve said” or “not again” and steer the conversation away. Remember, as awkward as it will feel to stand up to her and be rude she has no compunctions doing that to you.

I hope all goes well with your pregnancy. Do you have extra support to help with your anxiety? I found a pregnancy after loss group through SANDS really helped me.

You need to start standing up for yourself.

Your husband is useless, but that doesn't mean you have to be. You have a voice so use it. After everything this horrible woman has done you shouldn't give a shit about her feelings. Be direct and stick up for yourself every single time. Make a vow to yourself that you will never allow her to steamroll you again, not ever. If that means she isn't a part of your life, so be it. That's on her.

It’s easy for your DH to tell you to move on - that way, he doesn’t have to deal with it. I’m so over these husbands who moan about being stuck between their wives/mothers/sisters when they’re the common denominator, they’re the ones who have to act.

Anyway, you’re married to a man who is evidently used to letting the main woman in his life lead the way. You have a choice now. Either you give in to your MIL (which you clearly won’t do), or you set your boundaries and deal with the consequences however harsh they may be. You can’t count on your DH.

You’re worried about hurting or offending someone when you bite your tongue and don’t say what you’re thinking. There’s never any need to be rude, but you don’t have to be rude to stand up for yourself.

“Yes I remember very well from last time how put out you were that you couldn’t stay with us. I’m afraid nothing had changed, it’s just not the best decision. Of course it’s entirely your choice whether you come and stay in an Airbnb, or don’t come at all”

“Do you appreciate just how hurtful your comments are? I want you to know that what you just said has wounded me: I’m no snowflake, please try to have some empathy”

“We all have our burdens to bear. This just doesn’t work for me. Sorry”

“DH doesn’t seem to have an opinion on this, but I do and it’s no, not the right thing for you to stay”

And so in and so forth.

I agree about standing up for yourself.

I know it's hard when it's family because you do want to keep the peace and you want a certain type of relationship, but you certainly won't get either of these things if you let her railroad over you.

If your DH won't back you up, you also need to be very frank with him about your expectations. If he still won't back you up then perhaps you need to try and think about your future.

I am sorry about your son. My m'n'law is tricky and if I had my time again I would not have been such a wall flower with her. You need to set your boundaries in life and be clear about them or people walk over them.
One thing I would say though is since your m'n'law is also tricky - I think even if you did bring up the past she would not suddenly become this compassionate person and give you the answer or closure you want.
I handle my m'n'law by lowering my expectations of her - that way I am never disappointed. She could say and do what she likes now - nothing surprises me and I don't expect her to behave in a regular way so I am never disappointed. My husband is very supportive though and that helps a lot.

You need to set the expectation that visitors stay elsewhere. We lived abroad with small children and an endless stream of visitors and it's exhausting. You only have one bedroom so say people are welcome to visit and you will send links for local accommodation. If you do the same for everyone then your MIL can't be upset.

Your MIL sounds absolutely awful but your husband needs to start backing you up here. It’s unforgivable that he isn’t sticking up for you and both of you need to call her out for this unacceptable behaviour. She has been extremely rude to you, don’t feel bad about being direct back. I’m so sorry for your loss and wishing you all the best with this pregnancy.

I'm very sorry about your son. Best wishes for the rest of your pregnancy. I also have difficulties with an insensitive MIL. They sound similar actually. Mine never expressed any happiness about DH and I getting engaged, was difficult about our wedding (she was "devastated" she didn't get to make any decisions), and has not said anything to my face about DH and I needing to have IVF or our failures. The way I deal with it now is to not expect anything from her and manage any interaction I have with her.

Your DH definitely needs to back you up. I appreciate the difficulty he has, as I also have a difficult mother. However he needs to make you and your feelings his priority. He should be trying to keep your stress levels down. He's a grown man now and can't be afraid to tell his mother when she's being rude or sensitive.

Husband needs to grow a back bone - you need a very frank conversation about being united when baby arrives. He needs to back you up more even if it upsets her.

She’s been a shit and I imagine you’re right and there is more to come. Try to assert yourself with her, even if it’s afterwards in a text message. Example - ‘XYZ really upset me while I was going through a difficult time - I’d appreciate it if you respected my choices and need for space.’

I hope the rest of your pregnancy goes smoothly and she doesn’t cause you too much extra stress!

OP the way I deal with people like your MIL is to kill with kindness in my responses - it usually totally confuses them and shuts them up!

So she says “I can’t believe we have to stay in an Airbnb, how ridiculous we can’t stay with you”. You say “yes I’m so thankful I have such thoughtful PIL who are looking out for their vulnerable pregnant DIL and future grandchild by staying elsewhere. Some PIL wouldn’t care about their DIL or DGC so I’m really lucky”. It just throws them as they can’t disagree with you as then they’d be saying they aren’t thoughtful/ don’t care about DGC! So usually they just shut up. Sometimes they actually start to act in the way you describe them - ie thoughtful and caring, as they like hearing those descriptions about themselves!

Another example: her: “oh stop talking about your wedding planning, it’s ages away yet”. “MIL I just wanted to say straight away how thrilled I am to be joining your family, and can’t wait to get you involved in planning. You’re always so creative/organised
/fun/(whatever description fits her most truthfully) so I’ve always known you’d have some great ideas for the day!”

Again, she’d be thrown as she won’t want to say “no I’m not fun/no I have no good ideas/ no I’m not creative” (if you’ve picked one that vaguely fits her and plays to her ego) so she’ll end up sort of agreeing with you or thanking you. And if you’re lucky she’ll end up trying to live up to your good opinion of her!
Best of luck OP, especially with your DH. I think he would benefit hugely from counselling to deal with his anxiety/childhood / messed up relationship with his parents

I’m so sorry and yanbu. In-laws to me reap what they sow. Treat me like crap then don’t expect me to take care of you when the time comes!
Fortunately mine live in a different country and we have not been able to see them for two years (of absolute bliss!)
I treat my in-laws (mil especially) like I would a annoying co-worker. Civil and polite but I don’t reveal myself to them at all any more. It helps my dh and his father keep in touch so there is no reason for me to call her, etc. The silence has truly been golden!

It’s that age old MN adage. You don’t have an MiL problem, you have a DH problem.

I’m sure he is very kind and lovely blah blah blah. But he is also unsupportive, disloyal, weak and selfish. He prefers an easy life over doing the right thing by you. You need to lay down your boundaries with DH regarding PiLs, tell him that you expect him to deal with it and back you up when you speak up, and you need to mean it. Don’t let allowing his family to walk all over you be his “easy option”. He should be doing this out of loyalty and love for you but for some reason it seems he needs further incentive.

I think your husband has behaved poorly in not sticking up for you against her.

It should not have to be your place to do this, but I would definitely start sticking up for yourself.

Tell her you dont want her staying with you and why, you are allowed to say what you think and voice your opinion, your feelings count.

You are also perfectly reasonable in your requests.

She sounds really insensitive as does your DH.

Your feelings are valid so sorry for all your have gone through.

You know, she lives in another country. You can be as rude as you like to her, and refuse to see her. It doesn’t matter.

You can say “yes I remember exactly what you were like when my son had died, and there is no way in hell you are staying in my house” which is what you actually feel.

You can say “no, I’m not meeting you when you are over here, DH can go on his own”.

If DH doesn’t like it, he can start doing some of the emotional leg work to mediate between the two of you. At the minute, he is making you do all of it. He can make the excuses about why they can’t stay, or you can give the real reason. This woman is nothing to you, she has been a complete butch to you from start to finish. You don’t need to bend over backwards to save her feelings.

After thirteen years of biting my tongue I lost it with my MIL

Since then she's been better

You need to put this horrible woman in her place. Where the bloody hell does she expect to sleep in a one bed apartment?

Your husband and FIL are scared to speak out and have been beaten down and put in their place. Pathetic

It's down to you

Op your trapped between a Weak dh and an over bearing self Centred narracist.

You have my sympathy.

The line that says it all... "I'm OK with delta".

All about her.

Op it's so hard because you don't want to upset dh but he's kicking off the door wild open for you to be abused and upset by his mum.

You have a right to defend yourself, you didn't marry mum.

She's been appalling it's OK to be brisk, curt and say what you want. She's pulled off the your gloves for a you... She's tramped over boundaries..

Disrespected you, not taken any account of you...