Page 28 | To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

Needapoodle · 2021-08-27T07:41:58+00:00

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark. I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

Doodlebug71 · 30/08/2021 21:37

@Janiiejones

'At least she’s not called him Danny Dyer. That confused me a bit in the numerous previous threads frothing about Operation Ark.'

God, did I call him Danny Dyer on previous threads .

Downton! I didn't realise Egan had been on that. He seems a lovely man, just wrong to support this imo.

You give yourself away... so obviously.

IMO, obviously.

Doodlebug71 · 30/08/2021 21:40

@fourminutestosavetheworld

Awful news about KSAR. Quite the juxtaposition between how the US and the UK treated a civilian attempting to leave with rescue animals.

How is there a juxtaposition? The UKgovt has spent the last few days on a smear campaign. The US govt just didn't bother.

BritishSummertime · 30/08/2021 21:52

@VeganVeg

I just read one of their updates... the US military did what?? I know, I know... utter bar stewards. They know what will happen to Charlotte, her staff, and those animals. Utter, utter bar stewards.*

It’s dreadful. Apparently Charlotte is safe.

According to. Post on Facebook she is no longer in the airport & is back in the city.

She wasn't allowed on a flight with the disabled puppy so didn't get on, there seems to be a thin line between noble and stupid, surely her life is at risk but she stayed for a puppy.

VeganVeg · 30/08/2021 22:08

She wasn't allowed on a flight with the disabled puppy so didn't get on, there seems to be a thin line between noble and stupid, surely her life is at risk but she stayed for a puppy.

She truly cares. 🙏🏻

XenoBitch · 30/08/2021 22:10

@VeganVeg

She wasn't allowed on a flight with the disabled puppy so didn't get on, there seems to be a thin line between noble and stupid, surely her life is at risk but she stayed for a puppy.

She truly cares. 🙏🏻

I would do the same for my dog. She is a rescue, but she rescued me more than I rescued her.

VeganVeg · 30/08/2021 22:16

I would do the same for my dog. She is a rescue, but she rescued me more than I rescued her.

KarmaStar · 30/08/2021 22:19

Pen Farthing is a hero and extremely brave,as are his team.
The dogs and cats did not make this human war,humans did,knowing adults and children would suffer.They made that decision.
Animals are treated terribly around the world and I'm very glad that again animal welfare has garnered so much support.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 31/08/2021 02:59

"How is there a juxtaposition? The UKgovt has spent the last few days on a smear campaign. The US govt just didn't bother."

I was more thinking of the contrast between helping him to load crates and leave for safety, with orders to use a military flight if the charter didn't show up, in contrast with forcibly opening the crates to release the dogs into the airport and leaving them all behind.

Bryonyshcmyony · 31/08/2021 06:42

Pen farthing is clearly an honourable bloke with good intentions , but that doesn't make Ben Wallace a bad one. He was right to question initially whether using up military time on the animals was the best thing to do, and also to highlight abuse that operating forces were getting over the situation. His job is to support the British Army and that's what he tried to do.

MrsLargeEmbodied · 31/08/2021 06:47

some of you prefer animals above humans
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/30/britain-dogs-afghan-people-pen-farthing

Bryonyshcmyony · 31/08/2021 06:54

As Tom Tugendhat, the Tory MP and ex-serviceman who has been struggling to get his old army interpreter into the UK, put it: “We’ve just used a lot of troops to get in 200 dogs; meanwhile my interpreter’s family is likely to be killed. When one interpreter asked me a few days ago, ‘Why is my five-year-old worth less than a dog?’ I didn’t have an answer.”

Saucery · 31/08/2021 07:21

@Bryonyshcmyony

As Tom Tugendhat, the Tory MP and ex-serviceman who has been struggling to get his old army interpreter into the UK, put it: “We’ve just used a lot of troops to get in 200 dogs; meanwhile my interpreter’s family is likely to be killed. When one interpreter asked me a few days ago, ‘Why is my five-year-old worth less than a dog?’ I didn’t have an answer.”

But who blocked that man from escaping? Visas…paperwork…..UK and/or US govt did that. It’s their fault TT’s interpreter couldn’t get out.

There was no queue ‘jumped’ by a cargo of animals. The queue was kept off the planes by red tape and incompetence.It doesn’t matter what anyone’s opinion of animal v human life is, because that wasn’t the issue.
TT needs to look a lot closer to home if he wants someone to blame.

Saucery · 31/08/2021 07:23

[quote MrsLargeEmbodied]some of you prefer animals above humans
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/30/britain-dogs-afghan-people-pen-farthing[/quote]
I’m sure some people do. However, that had no impact on the decisions to block vulnerable Afghan people from getting on planes.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 31/08/2021 07:34

"But who blocked that man from escaping? Visas…paperwork…..UK and/or US govt did that. It’s their fault TT’s interpreter couldn’t get out."

The Taliban did. When they said that they would no longer allow Afghans to leave. I guess the US could have defied them but given that they controlled the city and the airport gates I don't think that would have been realistic.

notimagain · 31/08/2021 07:34

Yes, an interesting piece certainly the comment that :

“ But real anger and frustration have been reported in military circles, not only with Farthing but with some of his vocal band of British supporters, who bombarded ministers and MPs with angry tweets and emails demanding that something be done for the animals at a time when every second counted.

For veterans struggling to come to terms with a defeat that reopens deep mental wounds, it hurts to feel that some of the public will lobby harder for cats and dogs than for the people they served alongside. ”

Because that is certainly appeared to be the case with some posters here and it’s been unsettling TBH to see the continuing unswerving, and almost unquestioning belief that Mr Farthing’s version of events is the only true one and that only the other side is capable or guilty of spin…

And that being the case time I found something better to do.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 31/08/2021 07:34

"Pen farthing is clearly an honourable bloke with good intentions , but that doesn't make Ben Wallace a bad one. He was right to question initially whether using up military time on the animals was the best thing to do, and also to highlight abuse that operating forces were getting over the situation. His job is to support the British Army and that's what he tried to do."

I think is spot on.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 31/08/2021 07:38

"For veterans struggling to come to terms with a defeat that reopens deep mental wounds, it hurts to feel that some of the public will lobby harder for cats and dogs than for the people they served alongside."

I work with a veteran and this is his view. Some very complicated emotions around the purpose he actually served out there, concern for the people left behind and the fate of the country, and incredulity that one of the biggest stories has been getting out some animals.

AlrightThereSkippy · 31/08/2021 07:46

There are indeed people who prefer animals over humans. It's easy to say "humans did it and animals had no say in starting a war". Yes, obviously, because they cannot talk. They aren't capable of starting wars. It isn't because they are peaceful, amazing beings, who are better than humans. I've known dogs who are vicious assholes too(!). Have you seen how some cats kill their prey? It isn't nice. But you can't project human values on to animals, so saying "they didn't start the war" is utter nonsense to me. T

he interpreter's five year old mentioned by TT and the toddler who for trampled to death in the crowds at Kabul airport also didn't start any wars. I don't accept the "humans started this, so animals are better" rhetoric which some people genuinely do engage in... (Especially when it's 'only' brown people in a far away land).

I know people on here will say they aren't prioritising animals over humans in this case and I do know the reasoning behind that. But it is definitely common among particularly unpleasant humans to say "I don't support human charities, only animal ones because they can't talk for themselves", "yes madam, as I said, I'm asking for a donation to a charity for newborn babies (not known for their advocacy skills)" (actual conversation a friend of mine had while trying to get donations for a children's charity). A poster on MN once said if there was a building on fire and she has the choice to save her own dog or a small child, she'd leave the child and save the dog. I think that would possibly be murder, culpable homicide or man slaughter of a small child, but she was happy to post this on a parenting forum. It is 'a thing' and not unheard of.

A pp up thread said we look to the world like a nation of people who care more about animals than people after this. For how many people that is actually true, I don't know, but it is shameful that it is any of us, especially those who eat meat, dairy or eggs but would genuinely prefer to save their pet dog over a human child. I actually think that is a serious problem.

But as I said, I don't like the Pen F witch-hunt and I'm relieved he got out. But equally, I'm not up for cancelling Ben Wallace over this one. A lot of blood lust from the "I'm just so much more CARING than other people and love the poor doggies" crew on Twitter. The irony appears to be lost on them, but whatever.

AlrightThereSkippy · 31/08/2021 07:54

Excuse typos. My phone is being very odd today!

SueSaid · 31/08/2021 09:09

'She wasn't allowed on a flight with the disabled puppy so didn't get on'

I find it staggering that the US military didn't let Charlotte on with one puppy. I hope she is safe and gets out.

Doodlebug71 · 31/08/2021 11:09

@Bryonyshcmyony

Pen farthing is clearly an honourable bloke with good intentions , but that doesn't make Ben Wallace a bad one. He was right to question initially whether using up military time on the animals was the best thing to do, and also to highlight abuse that operating forces were getting over the situation. His job is to support the British Army and that's what he tried to do.

No one was using up military time on animals.. Farthing's team was supposed to be loading the animals onto the plane. No military helped him to get into the airport. He had to negotiate Taleban checkpoints himself. It turned out that he didn't leave the airport until late on Saturday afternoon (28th), after most of the UK troops had left. He was kept in a hangar for most of the time.

The fact that Wallace invited them to the airport via twitter, then managed to tweet again whilst they were waiting outside about how he'd changed his mind, and *wasn't going to "facilitate their safe passage" after all, is enough. That is a nasty thing to do. Their lives were at risk, and he knew it. Wallace knew there was a terrorist threat out there, and he left them out there to face it. That and the goady tweets, regening on his promise? He's a disgrace to humanity.

Wallace appears to have deleted those tweets, but lots of us read them, and realised what he'd done. He appears to be a very nasty, vindictive piece of work.

Farthing was told that there was no one eligible to take seats on that place. Charlotte was still in the airport, by all accounts, but she thought his place had left, and I'm guessing that he had no idea she was still there.

Two humanitarian efforts, scuppered by uncaring governments.

KimchiLaLa · 31/08/2021 11:20

@Hopdathelf

I’m very much people before pets. I had sympathy for this chap initially but his bloody mindedness about the animals seems to be risking lives.

This

Bryonyshcmyony · 31/08/2021 11:21

"No one was using up military time on animals"

how can anyone believe this?!

The British Army have said that they used time on it! Of course they did. You don't just waltz through with 300 animals and no help from the British Army.

KimchiLaLa · 31/08/2021 11:22

I think Farthing has some serious PTSD - the rants on sky news were pretty bad at times and I think he needs help.

Doodlebug71 · 31/08/2021 11:35

All the talk of "the queue" to get out is very misleading. There was no queue. It was mad scramble, with people doing their best to attract someone's attention, so they could be processed.

People were told to wave or wear something identifying the country they'd worked with/for, so they would be easier to spot in the crowds. They were plucked out at random, and sent to be checked to see whether they had the right to leave Afghanistan after all.

The fact that there were not enough people processed and eligible to sit on those seats, nor to fill the other aircraft at that airport isn't farthing's fault. The blame for that lies squarely with the UK and US govts for not sorting out an evacuation process months ago, when they knew the timeline for troops withdrawal.

It's horrible that a humanitarian mission to save people was delayed and rubbished by a government who don't give a stuff about people.