To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

[Needapoodle]

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark.

I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

They didn't just 'rescue some pets’'. Please give our brilliant military staff some credit, there is no way animals would have been prioritised. There are lots of people who have pointed out details on the animals which give explanations for why they were moved. As ex military Wallace would of course have known that yet strangely did not diffuse the frothing twitterers fury about it.

@user78976

ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation

Not really "sudden" though is it? This has been foreseeable since the signing of deals with the Taliaban, it was just 'Ben' who left things to the last minute.

The pets are irrelevant. "Ben" just went after Pen Farthing because Pen Farthing found his own charter plane and highlighted that the British rescued a Toyota car instead of humans.

That Toyota will have contained military technology that, if it had been left there, the Taliban would have auctioned it off to the Russians or Chinese. That would have put significant numbers of service personnel at risk across the world. Oh and the MOD did not leave it to the last minute, the responsibility for getting people to leave the country was for the FCDO until the Taliban took control. The MOD have just undertaken their biggest airlift in over 70 years. We should be applauding them.

The MOD have just undertaken their biggest airlift in over 70 years. We should be applauding them.
I absolutely applaud those on the ground who administrated this rescue. Nothing but admiration for them.
The office-based higher-ups who dragged their feet, prevaricated and wasted months of prep time so the crisis airlifts were necessary…..no, I don’t think they deserve any applause whatsoever.

There are still UK nationals and Afghan nationals stuck out there in terrible danger. That is down to our govt.

Setting records straight, because there's lots of BS out there: it's reported that nowzad 5 cats died, as a result of being caught in that attack, and the tear-gassing whilst they were all waiting outside the airport. If Wallace hadn't reneged on his promise, the staff and animals would all have made it.

MN; can you please ask people to not use such disaparaging language towards those trying to help?

I'm one of those people using twitter to try and help whoever needs help. During recent weeks, that's included translating for people who need it, and connecting people who can help each other/others. No one (as far as I know) is charging for this, because we're just trying to help people in a desperate situation.

@user78976

And it was 'Ben' and his team who refused to let Pen Farthing's human team be rescued.

Was it?

The office-based higher-ups who dragged their feet, prevaricated and wasted months of prep time so the crisis airlifts were necessary…..no, I don’t think they deserve any applause whatsoever.

That’s really unfair on many of the MOD “higher-ups”, (both civilian and military) who will have been coordinating a lot of what we’ve seen on TV….and I’m not sure the MOD should be carrying much of the blame anyway..

The UK Forces were essentially out of Afghanistan in 2014, there was “rump” left. The big driver for this has been US deciding to withdraw and then the timing of the withdrawal.

I think if any department in U.K. Gov is then to blame it’s the Foreign Office, and also maybe, just maybe the higher ups who decide on immigration and visa policy…If there had been more haste with UK Visas for Afghan nationals, and maybe if some Brits out there had left earlier the “crisis airlift” wouldn’t have needed to have been of the magnitude it ended up being…

Blaming the MOD for all that has gone is a bit like blaming the fire brigade for not being able to put out a fire that somebody else started.

That’s a fair point, notimagain. Not the MOD then.

@Booknooks. Yes, it was Wallace who refused to let them into the airport. He directed them to go to the airport, then started tweeting later in the day (Wednesday) about how he was reneging on his promise. That's when he ramped up his smear campaign about refusing to prioritise pets over people. Interesting that he appears to have deleted those tweets from his account.

Wallace tweeted in the wee small hours that they should present at the airport. They set off in the wee small hours, and were made to wait outside for over 10 hours. When they did get in, the visa rules had been changed 2 hours previously (whilst they were stuck outside waiting, and whilst Wallace was tweeting about his refusal to let them in). The staff were refused their passage.

After they were made to leave, they were caught up in the attacks, and targetted, then tear-gassed. They drove back to their compound, because it was the safest option at that point.

Wallace's refusal to let them into the airport earlier in the day absolutley cost them their safe passage. Sickening also, is that when Farthing tried to fill the seats on his plane, he was apparently told there was no one to fill them. There was more than adequate space on planes, but they hadn't processed enough people to fill the planes.

All those people, and the UK MOD didn't even bother to process them.

Interesting stuff. Ben Wallace, former arms dealer is the same chap who was crying crocodile tears about people being blasted to smithereens, and/or left behind in Afghanistan.

www.thecanary.co/opinion/2021/08/17/wondering-who-benefited-from-the-war-in-afghanistan-theyll-be-meeting-in-london-next-month/

@Saucery

That’s a fair point, notimagain. Not the MOD then.

Yep…I think one worry for many is how easily the MSM got distracted from the overall picture of what was going on by their insistence of pretty much reducing it to coverage of the Pen v. Ben show…

Yep…I think one worry for many is how easily the MSM got distracted from the overall picture of what was going on by their insistence of pretty much reducing it to coverage of the Pen v. Ben show…

Not distracted - it was intentional. Right wing media in the main - telegraph, times, spectator etc. They just made a lot of noise about it to detract from the other more obvious failings.

Wallace had no real jurisdiction over the airport though, even pen acknowledges it was controlled by the Americans. Even if he had phoned biden (which let's be real he wouldn't have been able to do anyway) and asked him nicely, it doesn't mean they would have done it. I think some people overestimate the sway we have with the US.

Interesting stuff. Ben Wallace, former arms dealer is the same chap who was crying crocodile tears about people being blasted to smithereens, and/or left behind in Afghanistan.

Careful. They don’t like you mentioning this on here.

@snowballer

Yep…I think one worry for many is how easily the MSM got distracted from the overall picture of what was going on by their insistence of pretty much reducing it to coverage of the Pen v. Ben show…

Not distracted - it was intentional. Right wing media in the main - telegraph, times, spectator etc. They just made a lot of noise about it to detract from the other more obvious failings.

Not the BBC or the Guardian, they didn’t cover it then ……

We’ve just had probably the worse FCO screw up (I’m being polite) since probably 1982…..(MOD/HM Forces had to sort that one out as well)…at least in that case the Foreign Secretary had enough integrity to resign……..And yet it’s as if some people haven’t noticed and it’s all about you know who…??

@VeganVeg

Interesting stuff. Ben Wallace, former arms dealer is the same chap who was crying crocodile tears about people being blasted to smithereens, and/or left behind in Afghanistan.

Careful. They don’t like you mentioning this on here.

Are we allowed to mention that his constituency includes a major manufacturer of planes used for combat, an employer in the area? I believe the Uk may have sold some to the US and other superpowers who like to use that sort of weaponry in the past.

Are we allowed to mention that his constituency includes a major manufacturer of planes used for combat, an employer in the area?
I believe the Uk may have sold some to the US and other superpowers who like to use that sort of weaponry in the past.

Oh, I’ll just put that in its own post, as a statement of fact that is there for all to see if they look at his constituency details

@Booknooks

Wallace had no real jurisdiction over the airport though, even pen acknowledges it was controlled by the Americans. Even if he had phoned biden (which let's be real he wouldn't have been able to do anyway) and asked him nicely, it doesn't mean they would have done it. I think some people overestimate the sway we have with the US.

You misunderstand. Wallace directed them to go to the airport. They did. For several of the hours they were outside, begging to be let in (so they could at least tend to the animals he knew they'd take), all Wallace did was tweet that he'd reconsidered, and decided to not help them after all.

That's a shitty thing to do. He baited them, knew they'd go to the airport with the animals, and then he left them out there for 10+ hours. I noted at the time that if anyone had posted on here that their spouse had done something like that, most people would be posting "LTB."

By the time they got in, the visa rules had been changed. If they'd been allowed in, as promised, they stood a chance.

"Not distracted - it was intentional. Right wing media in the main - telegraph, times, spectator etc. They just made a lot of noise about it to detract from the other more obvious failings."

Well they're doing a shot job because all of the other failings are still mainstream news and will be for a long time after all this PF stuff has disappeared. Honestly, I think this is just PF supporters unable to accept that many people have read the facts and reached a different conclusion to them - it's intolerable to them, so a conspiracy against him is being born.

"Those who believe the "people before animals" line: if that were the case, why do you think there were no people on that NOWZAD plane (apart from Farthing, apparently)?"
MoD have issued a statement saying that PF's evacuation did not cost anyone a place. Everyone had been processed. They didn't need his seats. PF said as much on tv this morning - that he offered but they weren't needed as no more processed people to board.

"Not really "sudden" though is it? This has been foreseeable since the signing of deals with the Taliaban, it was just 'Ben' who left things to the last minute."

Nobody predicted Kabul would be under Taliban control within a fortnight. That's why we are rescuing uk citizens who went out for family events.

"British rescued a Toyota car instead of humans."

They kept freight on stand by to load in the event of space being available but no processed people. Planes were landing every 45 mins. If one needed to go, and there was space, they put stuff on it.

By the time they got in, the visa rules had been changed. If they'd been allowed in, as promised, they stood a chance.

And also let’s not pretend that a certain Mr Wallace was very likely to have known that Biden was about to change the rules. And if he did, which he would have, leaving then outside was a very calculated move indeed. Nasty, nasty man.

"You misunderstand. Wallace directed them to go to the airport. They did. For several of the hours they were outside, begging to be let in (so they could at least tend to the animals he knew they'd take), all Wallace did was tweet that he'd reconsidered, and decided to not help them after all."

Can you link to these tweets because I don't recall those at all?
They were told to go to the airport. They did and it took ages. By the time Taliban allowed them through various checkpoints and airport security, the rules had changed and Afghans were no longer allowed to leave.

@fourminutestosavetheworld

"You misunderstand. Wallace directed them to go to the airport. They did. For several of the hours they were outside, begging to be let in (so they could at least tend to the animals he knew they'd take), all Wallace did was tweet that he'd reconsidered, and decided to not help them after all."

Can you link to these tweets because I don't recall those at all?
They were told to go to the airport. They did and it took ages. By the time Taliban allowed them through various checkpoints and airport security, the rules had changed and Afghans were no longer allowed to leave.

I think people have filled in gaps themselves weirdly, especially as even pen himself has retold things differently.

"And also let’s not pretend that a certain Mr Wallace was very likely to have known that Biden was about to change the rules. And if he did, which he would have, leaving then outside was a very calculated move indeed. Nasty, nasty man."

He may have known the rules would change, I've no idea, but did he already know when they were told to set off? Did he have a way of contacting them en route? Did he just hope they'd make it in time? Did he actually have thousands of other people snd stories in his brain at that time?

And Wallace has confirmed Pens animals were not given priority over people anyway for all those saying they were.

Did he have a way of contacting them en route?

I’m sure he did. As a last resort, he’s fond of twitter, he could have sent a private message to Pen.

"And Wallace has confirmed Pens animals were not given priority over people anyway for all those saying they were."

Yes he has. MoD have confirmed that there was nobody processed left to board.

I expect they could have done without the sm onslaught in the middle of all of this though, very undignified.

I think Charlotte at KSAR has been very dignified actually. She is in the same position - with pets, Afghan staff not allowed through. Asking for help, not swearing or whipping up a sm shitshow, being patient, understanding that time may or may not be found to help her animals. I hope they all got out.