Page 22 | To ask if you think ben wallace has done a bad job?

Needapoodle · 2021-08-27T07:41:58+00:00

Loads of people on social media calling for Ben's (defence secretary) resignation over pen farthing and his operation ark. I think ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation in which he has to make decisions for the good of the most amount of people possible. I also think that the insistence on evacuating hundreds of animals will undoubtedly have taken resources away from getting people out of Afghanistan and prevented human lives from being saved. I don't think that calling for ben's resignation over some animals not being able to be evacuated is reasonable at all. Or have i missed something?

DogFoodPie · 30/08/2021 08:05

I just think that by making Pen look bad it makes the government look bad. Is our government really controlled by twitter and some minor celebrities on This Morning? Of course not and they should be making decisions based on the expert opinions of their advisors and the military, not public opinion. That's not to say they can't be aware of it and say they agree and really want to get Pen and his charity out, appreciate his efforts to secure a charter flight, and will do all they can to facilitate it bearing in mind that they have to put people first, but if it can be done in the nick of time they will allow it. As it is they look like they think Pen is some kind of lunatic who puts his pets ahead of people, but they were forced to save his pets ahead of deserving people by Dominic Dyer and a few hundred people on social media.

PaddleBoardingMomma · 30/08/2021 08:09

@Bythemillpond

So what should he have done?

He did everything to get them out and from my understanding it was the Taliban who stopped them.

If Biden hadn’t altered the paperwork requirements and they had got through as planned on the day they got to the airport the staff and families would be safely out.

It was the staff who said he should leave whilst he had the chance and to take as many animals with him.

Personally? (And I'm braced for a flaming, bring it)

I would have humanely shot all the animals on day one and got my staff to the airport. You know, before all of the Biden visa changes when they would have been able to get out of Kabul?

Sorry, but there were small children in that group... my conscience could eventually come to terms with shooting a dog but not looking into the eyes of an innocent child as I boarded my private jet to safety and waved goodbye knowing I'd signed their death warrant.

Subbaxeo · 30/08/2021 08:11

@Flyingantday

I’m not a betting person and this trial by Twitter stuff is crazy. I also think it’s crazy getting upset about one non-offensive word in a tweet or whatever it was, correctly describing a group of animals. If he’d called them pen’s flying circus or something, then I’d agree it was flippant/derisory, but the mental gymnastics involved in waving away a verbal threat to “destroy” someone but getting upset about the word “pets” is ridiculous. Anyway, the pets are out, behind all the people they could process, so I think the MOD have handled it well and the animal people should perhaps count their blessings and show a bit of humility in the light of these terrible stories coming out about orphaned and injured kids who didn’t get out and didn’t have years of military service or Twitter supporters as leverage.

I’m sure there will be time for inquests and recriminations about the handling of all of this, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. It was presumably the same assumption that they would have months to process people that meant the government couldn’t process everyone in time and that Nowzad hadn’t significantly wound down operations sooner either. It was a salvage operation from that point and strategic decisions were made. I think most moderate people can understand that no one is the villain here. Just people doing a very difficult job with different priorities.

Whatever ‘side’ you’re on, this is the most sensible post on here.

fourminutestosavetheworld · 30/08/2021 08:16

@Flyingantday

I’m not a betting person and this trial by Twitter stuff is crazy. I also think it’s crazy getting upset about one non-offensive word in a tweet or whatever it was, correctly describing a group of animals. If he’d called them pen’s flying circus or something, then I’d agree it was flippant/derisory, but the mental gymnastics involved in waving away a verbal threat to “destroy” someone but getting upset about the word “pets” is ridiculous. Anyway, the pets are out, behind all the people they could process, so I think the MOD have handled it well and the animal people should perhaps count their blessings and show a bit of humility in the light of these terrible stories coming out about orphaned and injured kids who didn’t get out and didn’t have years of military service or Twitter supporters as leverage.

I’m sure there will be time for inquests and recriminations about the handling of all of this, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. It was presumably the same assumption that they would have months to process people that meant the government couldn’t process everyone in time and that Nowzad hadn’t significantly wound down operations sooner either. It was a salvage operation from that point and strategic decisions were made. I think most moderate people can understand that no one is the villain here. Just people doing a very difficult job with different priorities.

I agree with all of this.

Bryonyshcmyony · 30/08/2021 08:24

Do you know what I think? I think the animals are out and now going on and on about them being called pets is the absolute height of awful Western privilege. Just be happy for them and now perhaps attention to all the people left behind. All the animals will be pets soon enough anyway hopefully.

polishthatfloor · 30/08/2021 08:27

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-shameful-evacuation-of-pen-farthing-s-pets-from-afghanistan

Read the PS

VeganVeg · 30/08/2021 09:27

Kabul Small Animal Sanctuary still aren’t out of Kabul and now only have a few hours left.

MrsLargeEmbodied · 30/08/2021 09:36

there are plenty of afghanis unable to even get to Kabul - quite a tragic situation.

VeganVeg · 30/08/2021 09:43

there are plenty of afghanis unable to even get to Kabul - quite a tragic situation

Due to the difficulties in getting to the airport and then Bidens rule change.
Charlotte from Kabul Small Animal sanctuary is American and already in the airport with the correct paperwork and passport.

MrsLargeEmbodied · 30/08/2021 09:46

there are taliban check points that people are unable to get through to get even close to Kabul

VeganVeg · 30/08/2021 09:53

Kabul Small Animal Sanctuary may only have an hour or so left for anyone that is interested.

snowballer · 30/08/2021 10:01

@MrsLargeEmbodied

there are plenty of afghanis unable to even get to Kabul - quite a tragic situation.

Afghans. Afghani is a unit of currency. Sorry to be pedantic.

VeganVeg · 30/08/2021 10:03

Afghans. Afghani is a unit of currency.

Strange she got it wrong, you know, with her being a bit of an expert.

MrsLargeEmbodied · 30/08/2021 10:15

@VeganVeg

really?

Doodlebug71 · 30/08/2021 11:16

@VeganVeg

Kabul Small Animal Sanctuary may only have an hour or so left for anyone that is interested.

I know. Her people have said she's been threatened twice now by the Taleban, poor woman.

Those who believe the "people before animals" line: if that were the case, why do you think there were no people on that NOWZAD plane (apart from Farthing, apparently)?

He offered seats on that plane to anyone who could use them.

Something is rotten in the UK govt. Has been for over a decade now.

BritishSummertime · 30/08/2021 12:04

@VeganVeg

Kabul Small Animal Sanctuary still aren’t out of Kabul and now only have a few hours left.

What will happen if she can't get a plane? Does anyone know why she is having so much trouble getting a plane? I don't understand how she is in the airport but can't leave, I can't imagine how scared she must be. And all the others stuck there

VeganVeg · 30/08/2021 12:36

What will happen if she can't get a plane? Does anyone know why she is having so much trouble getting a plane?I don't understand how she is in the airport but can't leave, I can't imagine how scared she must be. And all the others stuck there

I think they’ve had a few different planes arranged but there has been various issues with them. Then they couldn’t get permission to land. Apparently regulations are changing constantly. I really don’t know. I presume her Afghan staff are not with her just like Pens staff were not allowed. Those poor people.

notimagain · 30/08/2021 13:00

Does anyone know why she is having so much trouble getting a plane?

I’m not following this closely but if she literally can’t get a plane it sounds like she is running into problems gettin* a wet lease (“rent”aircraft plus crew).

The fairly obvious problem here is that flying into and out of Kabul is a risky proposition, especially today with the US and their air traffic control pulling out…well what exactly…and then what happens?

So it’s possible none of the normal companies are willing to shoulder the risk, or literally can’t get insurance to cover the flights, or if they do it’s costing a fortune and she might need a rich benefactor to step in…
It’s suspected there were similar problems with another evacuation a few days ago.

Just to emphasize I’m not saying that’s definitely the problem here but it is one possibility.

Fingers crossed she can get something organized.

Jarstastic · 30/08/2021 13:14

My reading of it (filtering through various news and Twitter trying to ascertain what actual situation is). seems like she has been inside the airport for days with both her staff and animals. US military won’t help with the animals. as she is inside the airport she should be safe from Taliban threats. I suppose her last resort is putting down the animals and getting on the last US govt plane on her own (but if her staff are inside the airport I’m assuming they have cleared paperwork and would also be allowed to board a US govt plane). The dogs have now been offered space in the hold by someone else, US veterans sheepdog organisation, but that plane hasn’t landed yet.

Doodlebug71 · 30/08/2021 13:27

@PaddleBoardingMomma I would have humanely shot all the animals on day one and got my staff to the airport. You know, before all of the Biden visa changes when they would have been able to get out of Kabul?

Which day are you counting as Day One? Those staff didn't have proper clearance until very shortly before they all headed to the airport (at Wallace's invitation). 24th August, they received their documentation. Wallace has said he tweeted his invitation to them to get to the airport after midnight, and that's when they went. So Wednesday 25th, they were sitting outside the airport, waiting to get in (whilst Wallace was tweeting about how he'd come to a different decision, and left them out there for 10+ hours). By the time they got in, the visa rules had been changed 2 hours previously (whilst Wallace was tweeting about how he'd changed his mind) and the staff were no longer allowed to leave.

So when, precisely, do you think your particular suggestion applies?

Here, watch this. 1'22. so just over a minute.

twitter.com/i/status/1430071791205109763

Sorry, but there were small children in that group... my conscience could eventually come to terms with shooting a dog but not looking into the eyes of an innocent child as I boarded my private jet to safety and waved goodbye knowing I'd signed their death warrant.

See above. You are woefully misinformed.

SueSaid · 30/08/2021 13:41

Dominic Dyer needs to get off the telly. I believe this odious, mouthy man is actually responsible for the lack of public sympathy (barring the twitter mob). He attacks, he shouts, he droans on non stop without letting anyone get a word in edgeways.

They need to show some humility and stfu.

It was a grand, ambitious and noble plan that in a deteriorating volatile situation was ultimately the wrong plan.

Good to see footage of actual service dogs and military staff returning safely in Brize Norton. Sad to hear some of Farthing's pets/rescues died in transit. What a dreadfully stressful experience to put them through.

user78976 · 30/08/2021 13:42

ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation

Not really "sudden" though is it? This has been foreseeable since the signing of deals with the Taliaban, it was just 'Ben' who left things to the last minute.

The pets are irrelevant. "Ben" just went after Pen Farthing because Pen Farthing found his own charter plane and highlighted that the British rescued a Toyota car instead of humans.

Doodlebug71 · 30/08/2021 13:43

@Jarstastic. 5 hours ago, the Kabul Small Animal Rescue only had 3 hours left. I truly hope Charlotte got out. (Their FB page has an update 5 hours ago, and that's it...)

One of my American friends, meanwhile, has posted a video of what appears to be US troops leaving Kabul (her husband is retired USAF, but hasn't been able to raise any help, to their disappointment).

user78976 · 30/08/2021 13:44

And it was 'Ben' and his team who refused to let Pen Farthing's human team be rescued.

SueSaid · 30/08/2021 13:50

@user78976

ben and his department have suddenly been thrust into a highly volatile and constantly changing dangerous situation

Not really "sudden" though is it? This has been foreseeable since the signing of deals with the Taliaban, it was just 'Ben' who left things to the last minute.

The pets are irrelevant. "Ben" just went after Pen Farthing because Pen Farthing found his own charter plane and highlighted that the British rescued a Toyota car instead of humans.

They didn't just 'rescue a Toyota'. Please give our brilliant military staff some credit, there is no way a bog standard car would have been prioritised. There are lots of people who have pointed out details on the car which give explanations for why it was moved. As ex military Farthing would of course have known that yet strangely did not diffuse the frothing twitterers fury about it.