Upset daughter

[DilemmaDelilah]

Back story - my daughter is very sensitive but also it seems quite incapable of understanding that other people (me) are also sensitive and can get upset by her comments. She and her family came to lunch on Sunday and she made several comments that upset me but her reaction is to laugh at me for being offended. They weren't majorly upsetting, but they were unkind. I provide some childcare for my daughter at half terms and a little in the summer holidays. I work full time so this has to come out of my annual leave. I also try to have the children overnight at least once a month so they are used to being here and it gives their parents a break. The children frequently come to us without enough clothes having been packed, she believes that they should be responsible for their own packing so does not supervise. I don't disagree with that in principle, but in reality it doesn't work. So I have been picking up a few bits of spare clothing for them in the sales so that there is something here if they have an accident or just don't have enough. It's only supermarket clothing and I am very happy for it to sit in the drawer and not be worn. However the children have frequently gone home in clothes other than they arrived in, especially socks, and you would think she would have noticed that - plus on occasion I have actually told her why. So - yesterday they arrived here in t-shirts and shorts. No jumper, fleece or coat. We had a picnic in the woods planned and it was breezy and not that warm, although nice and sunny. When I realised that was all they had with them and I told the older child that I was fed up of having to buy extra clothes for them because they didn't bring enough with them. I was cross - but before you say it I know I was unreasonable. I had some light jumpers for them here so they wore those and they were glad of them, because it was actually quite chilly! This morning I had a phone call from my daughter - the older child had told her I was cross at them and she was telling me off. She said it was a hot day so they didn't need anything more than t-shirts, I told her about the picnic and that it was actually quite cold. She said if I had told her what I was planning she would have made sure they had enough clothes but it was a hot day anyway.... there was a bit of a 'discussion' and I did not apologise, resulting in her telling me she was very upset and putting the phone down on me. My OH was actually already on the way to pick up the children at the time and when he got there she didn't even come downstairs to talk to him. So - she is upset - I am also upset, but she still expects me to look after her children (although to be fair it would be difficult for her to find alternative childcare) and she wants me to apologise. I would like her to apologise for upsetting me, but I haven't asked her to do so. I would like her to apologise for not realising that the children come to us with unsuitable or insufficient clothing, which I then have to remedy. My difficulty is that we are going away in a couple of weeks and I have asked her to feed the cats every other day while we are away (they have an automatic cat feeder so don't need checking on every day). I am worried that she might say she won't do it - she would have to get 2 buses to do so. We feed her cat every day when she goes away but we do have a car. AIBU in not apologising for having upset her? I am still looking after the children.

Speaking as someone who has become estranged from a previously I thought very close family member, i am aware that resentments can build up over time - (as this one has) and by the time it gets to the stage of either party asking for (or expecting) an apology - the risk of falling out permanently is definitely there. I don't think you would want to be in that situation.

With this in mind, and with the greatest of respect I would like to ask you to try to get some perspective.

You have both been stressed for various reasons. You, because you are finding the commitment you took on, in fact too much. You also sound as if you are frightened of losing your daughter. Which is understandable.

In fact, you are allowed to say how much you can take on. That's reasonable. If you haven't managed to do this though, and express your needs or limitations, then it is perfectly possible the other person has not noticed how stretched you have been. No blame attached to that on my part at all, just that none of us are mind readers are we?

Your daughter has been stressed because she probably feels she has failed as a mother - and is feeling resentful herself. And angry because you were cross with her kids. Or she thinks you were. I'm not sure how bad it was. If you had said something like 'oh for goodness sake, I wish your mum would remember to put a sweatshirt in the bag'...I don't think that would be that bad.

Regardless, it is very clear you are a caring grandma, and to be frank, not a child abuser or a serial killer. (Just to use exaggeration).
You haven't broken the law, neither have you harmed her kids beyond repair.

On the scale of it, what has actually happened? The kids are safe. Fed. Warm. Loved. Aren't they?

You and your daughter's family are safe. Fed. Warm and both holding down full time jobs. In this age of Covid actually an incredible achievement.

It really can be stalemate in a relationship when both of you are expecting an apology. And neither can truthfully give one for their own reasons.

I think in this situation I would get a bit of distance. Definitely ask someone else to look after the cats. Don't think either of you need another situation where things might go wrong. For example if your daughter couldn't feed the cats one day - which might lead you to think she did it on purpose.

You don't need to get into that situation again. It's not going to do your relationship any good.

I have noticed recently that especially with kids, all kinds of things can be misunderstood and misinterpreted, and lets face it as adults we carry round our own baggage from the past, anyway.

This sounds like a very tricky situation and I don't envy you.
Hope you can iron it out.

I feel a big part of the solution is to reassess your own needs, look after yourself, make clear that certain things are too much.

Wouldn't like to offer an opinion on apologies. Aside from personally I would rather do without the actual words, and see the person reflecting and doing things differently in future.

I think some people get into helping, and then attach their own agenda to 'helping' which creates a kind of dependence or even co-dependency which personally I don't wish to be a part of.

It's always the dynamic that bothers me more than what actually happened.

I'm a very practical person though, and certain that I would be perceived by some people as insensitive for that reason.

People talk about languages of 'love' and that's mine.

I personally feel that insisting on the words - 'I'm sorry for x' gets in the way often.

In misunderstandings with my own daugther and tough times, it goes a long way to say 'I love you'

Totally cheesy I know but as in the film,

'Love means never having to say 'I'm sorry'

Whether you agree with that or not, I feel sometimes people demand the words, and forget the emotion. And if the emotion is not right, then it somehow renders the words meaningless.

Sounds like you love your daughter and are maybe really conscientious and afraid of failing her.

Perhaps she feels the same? Good luck

It sounds like there's a lot of taking but not giving from your daughter. She sounds so ungrateful for everything you do for her. If she doesn't feed your cats, you should stop baby sitting for her. She'll soon apologise when she realises how much you do for her and how much childcare costs. £££

@Moltenpink

Are you my mum? We always disagree over the number of layers my kids need. I keep getting little packs of vests as a gift. I would imagine they were running around at the picnic and would have been fine in t shirts.

Kind of think this is possible too.

When mine was younger and bike riding I used to put them in something thin, but thermal with a rain jacket on top. Reason being I knew they would get boiling otherwise, running about.

My sibling thought it was a child being 'inappropriately dressed' . In my book completely bonkers as they were in waterproofs from head to toe when it rained and perfectly warm enough.

they have an automatic cat feeder so don't need checking on every day

Clothing issue upset aside, your cats shouldn’t be left alone for that long.

www.petplan.co.uk/pet-information/cat/advice/how-long-can-cats-be-left-alone/
Can I leave my cat home alone for two days?

If you’re going away for more than a day and night, your cat needs someone else to look after them. This could be a cat-loving friend or a neighbour popping in twice daily, a professional cat sitter or a boarding cattery. Discover the pros and cons of each option, and how to minimise distress to your cat while you’re not there

@PearlclutchersInc

Get a cat sitter who comes in every day to check on them and feed them etc. so that you're not dependant on her (and so that the cats don't get neglected).

Or ask a neighbour. We're more than happy to sort out NDNs and another neighbours cats while they're away. It's one less thing then for you to worry about.

This is all so dramatic. Why can't you have a sensible conversation with your daughter about expectations and your own limitations if it's too much for you? You're both as bad as eachother to be honest in that you don't want to apologise and she probably feels like she shouldn't as you've had a pop at her child over a jumper. You're now jumping to conclusions thinking she won't look after your cats (but won't ask her) and now working yourself up about all the things you do for her that in reality puts you out - but have done nothing to change the situation by talking to her. Good grief, have a conversation with her.

Everything is about getting your return back

Do the childcare because you want to or don't.

She's not sensitive - she's a typical narcissist, blows her top at the slightest hint of criticism while using the people around her with total insensitivity. She should make sure her kids have a range of clothing when they come to you - Britain is famous for its changeable weather and cold summers, for goodness sake.

Once your children become adults, with children of their own, they shouldn't be continuing to act like entitled brats. You are massively putting yourself out for your daughter, and frankly it sounds like she takes all of it for granted. You seem a nice person, and perhaps a little too easily pushed around - or at least making a lot of allowances to keep the peace. Sometimes you've got to be prepared to stand your ground, insist that people treat you better, and walk away from their tantrums until they realise they can't keep using you like this.

The cat thing does sound a bit of a drag on two buses, I think you could pay someone for that (but yes, she could also pay for childcare so I understand the arrangement).
I would support her in wanting the children to be independent - why don't you make them a laminated checklist of what to bring? It will help their organisational skills for life no end. And can include 'return any borrowed items dirty or clean' and 'don't pack items that are broken or too holey to wear'. Send a text the day before 'this is what we have planned, please bring usual list plus xyz'. You and dd need to work together and stop undermining each other.

That’s my experience of “sensitive” people. They are only sensitive to themselves, they are typically insensitive and rude to others.

I agree with this. I’ve been on the receiving end of a lot of nastiness. Whenever I’ve dared to say I’m upset or they’ve got the end of the stick, I have been thoroughly rounded on by such people.

Your gcs are too young to be thinking about organising their own stuff and get it 100% correct imo. In your position, I would text your dd and say ‘It was unfair of me to get upset with x and will speak to them when I see them next. In future, please ensure they are always sent with a coat, a jumper, a complete change of spare clothes, wellies in poor weather etc’

Your dd was incredibly rude to not come downstairs. I think at some stage a conversation should be had along the lines of ‘Am I the only one expected to apologise? I seem the remember the last few times I was upset being told to get over myself. Hiding upstairs is rude and childish.’ But this is better done face to face.

Your daughter sounds rather bratty, but you're correct that you shouldn't have complained directly to the children. Ideally, you should have raised the clothing problem with your daughter often enough that she started overseeing their packing. It's irresponsible of her not to, especially when she knows they don't always pack well and you're picking up her slack. However in this instance, she wouldn't have packed warmer clothes, herself, since she's so certain they weren't needed...

The bottom line is that your daughter doesn't appear to respect you. At this point, now that she's an adult with kids of her own, it won't be easy to fix. I can't imagine refusing to take care of my mother's pets after initially agreeing, but then again, I also wouldn't have that kind of argument with my DM. We don't always agree on everything, but we respect one another too much to argue.

I would be interested the best the other side of the story. It all sounds a bit daft really.

@GoodGrief100

This is all so dramatic. Why can't you have a sensible conversation with your daughter about expectations and your own limitations if it's too much for you? You're both as bad as eachother to be honest in that you don't want to apologise and she probably feels like she shouldn't as you've had a pop at her child over a jumper. You're now jumping to conclusions thinking she won't look after your cats (but won't ask her) and now working yourself up about all the things you do for her that in reality puts you out - but have done nothing to change the situation by talking to her. Good grief, have a conversation with her.

I agree with this.

Your daughter sounds like she's been ungrateful but you also sound like you're holding quite a lot of resentment about the things that you do for her and aren't happy to do quite as much. Which is understandable.

I wouldn't let this ruin your relationship with her though? I would call her and not necessarily apologise, but just explain how you felt and how her reaction made you feel. Otherwise it could fester and end up massively impacting your relationship with her and your GCs.

Three things,

1. I think your daughter generally should probably be more mindful and appreciative of your support and help based on what you’ve said
2. I think you could’ve avoided a lot of heart ache by just letting your daughter know you’d like her to make sure the kids always come over with x y and z so that they are ready for whatever you plan to do with them. It shouldn’t be a big deal, it’s just basic communication of needs.
3. The cat thing sounds like a lot. Even if it’s some sort of quid pro quo. I’m sure you get a lot of joy in spending quality time with your GC, not so much with the cats.

I’d just say, you regret not just being open about your needs when you look after the kids, you didn’t want to make her feel awkward but you recognise now that it could’ve avoided this situation. I’d also say that your daughter’s response to the communication issue made you feel upset too- unappreciated despite how much you try to support her. And that you’d like to draw a line under it, you’ll be clearer about what you need, and that she won’t take your help for granted.
If you think the relationship can handle that honesty? Some can’t and it’s not worth a permanent rift over this.

@zoemum2006

I’d be furious my mother expressed anger around my children. If she had a problem she should talk to me. They shouldn’t have to deal with it.

If I’m leaving my child under the responsibility of another adult, I’m EXPECTING them to tell them off if it’s needed. They are acting in loco parents. That includes telling them off.

Waiting the end of a few days to tell the mum and that will then do…. nothing because the moment has passed, isn’t helpful.

I’d wait a few days and see what happens.
At some point, she will have to talk to you to organise the childcare that she sorely need.

I would also point out to her that the dcs often arrive with inadequate clothing and stop providing those.
The dcs are cold and have no jumper? You stop the picnic. Then watch what unfold when the dcs come back with tales of no outing, cold days etc….

[quote BooomShakeTheRoom]@BlueMongoose

Reported?! For letting kids wear t-shirt and shorts in the summer?! Lots of kids prefer wearing less even when it's chilly. They tend to run hot and exercise much more than adults. No one would get reported.

As I said. If it was that cold, then OP should call her daughter and ask her to drop of xyz. Not provide the odd jumper (which needn't cost much) and then moan about it. It's a bloody jumper. OR the sensible thing to do would be change plans. Have a garden picnic instead so if it get too cold they can come indoors. OP is making a mountain out of a molehill.

And she's a grandparent. It should be a privilege to care for her grandchildren once in a while, not a chore that the daughter should be forever grateful for and something for her to bitch and moan about on an internet forum.[/quote]
Reported to their parents. i.e., saying, we were cold because you sent us in t-shirts. What would be surprising about that? What sort of scenario did you think I was talking about?
Looking after grandchildren is not a privilege. Or a duty. It's optional, and parents should be grateful. Decent parents are, and they also make sure their kids have the things they may reasonably need- there is history here of kids turning up without things they need if you read the OP.
The OP was not bitching. That has been done by others who commented, if anything.
Far too many parents regard grandparents as free childcare, and don't even treat those grandparents as well as they would treat a carer who was being paid to do it.

The fact that grandparents love their grandchildren should be a matter for joy. But it ought not to be exploited. I have seen too many grandparents run into the ground by selfish children wanting them to be childminders with no pay, and no consideration or gratitude for the time and in many cases, also money and holidays they give up to do it.

"This is silly DD. I'm sorry for snapping at the children, I was quite worn out for various reasons and taken aback that they didn't have spare clothes. Can we forget about it now please?"

Then babysit less and find another solution for the cats, two busses each way is a big ask IMO.

Just to add YANBU, I would never behave like your daughter has with my mum (or anyone) doing me a huge favour. I would have phoned to apologise about the clothes or if I thought you were being unfair, rolled my eyes and thanked you for having them.

But it's not worth falling out over.

Is she quite selfish by nature? She's probably not going to change now. Don't take it personally.

she made several comments that upset me but her reaction is to laugh at me for being offended

Didn't your husband have your back on that? I wouldn't want to stay in the house with someone who was upsetting me and then laughing at me.

You have to be tougher with her, OP. You do a lot for her so don't worry about her not having anything to do with you. She needs you and she needs to learn how to treat you well.

Your daughter is taking the piss.

Why are you using up your annual leave to cover her childcare needs? You need your down time to rest and relax. Childcare during the holidays is their responsibility to resolve.

I think if she had to pay for childcare because you were less available during the holidays, she's start to respect you more.

I certainly wouldn't accept be treated by my adult offspring so dismissively.

I am sorry OP but she should be thankful. My husband and I have no help so we have to do it all, no date nights or breaks for us. Childcare is us, no one else. Even if I had help, I made the kids and they are my responsibility, she should be buying you flowers and chocolates as a thanks!!

@BooomShakeTheRoom - I am not going to respond to everybody's comments - but because you obviously haven't read my posts properly I am going to respond to yours.

1. I have already stated that I love my grandchildren but that does not mean I have to love looking after them. They are extremely active, noisy and boisterous and quite honestly it can be like WWIII here sometimes. I am not fit, I have been quite unwell, and sometimes I find it very difficult to cope with them. There is absolutely no rule that says if you love your grandchildren you have to love looking after them as well. on
2. Regardless of the fact that it is August - it WAS cold yesterday and the children said they were cold and they were glad of their jumpers.
3. I do not expect my daughter to come to my house every day for a week with the children to feed the cats. It is every other day, she doesn't HAVE to bring the children, and I don't expect it - I asked her, I always ask, I never expect, and when she is away I feed hers daily. Yes I have a car and she doesn 't, but I also have a full time job and she doesn't.

The children are with me at the moment and will be staying until Friday afternoon. I have already apologised to the eldest, they are very happily playing at the kitchen table on their tablets following a game of Articulate, and having had lunch following a morning at the park. Very shortly the youngest and I will be cooking the pudding for tonight, then the eldest and I will be cooking the main for tonight. They will then watch some telly before staggered bathtimes, stories and bed. They love coming here, they love us and they love the routine, and we try our hardest to ensure they feel loved, secure and wanted and will continue to do that as long as they want us to. However, I would like to feel appreciated. I don't need chocolates and flowers.

Local cat sitter? There are so many nowadays. That might ease the worry over practicalities right now.

I think you’re both trying you’re best and perhaps need to communicate better.