To think that this whole chaos in Afghanistan has happened because Biden wanted to be out by 9/11

ThisBeTheName · 2021-08-23T09:45:07+00:00

11th September this year is the twenty year anniversary of 9/11. It is now obvious that Biden decided he wanted some nice headlines where he could boast, on the big day, that the US was out of Afghanistan. He could have chosen to withdraw his troops this winter, after "fighting season" was over, when all the Taliban men would be back in their villages and so wouldn't be available overrun the cities, and Kabul in particular. Biden was advised to do that, in fact. But that would have meant that the US wasn't out by September 11... Why choose August 31t as his deadline to be out? Because of 9/11! Otherwise the end of August is a totally spurious timeline. It's a shameful mess, all because Biden wanted some headlines and a legacy. Well he got that...

Shurl · 23/08/2021 10:47

Not really. Didn't Trump hold talks with the Taliban where he agreed to pull troops out by April?

user1471457751 · 23/08/2021 10:49

The original deadline under Trump was May, maybe Biden felt there was a limit to how much you could extend especially given Trump had removed about 80% of the armed forces stationed there.
And let's face it, the Taliban knew this withdrawal was coming and has spent ages building support/paying off corrupt people. Whether they withdrew now or in December, the outcome would be the same.

Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 23/08/2021 10:51

@Shurl

Not really. Didn't Trump hold talks with the Taliban where he agreed to pull troops out by April?

Whatever Trump did or didn't do, is irrelevant. Biden could have taken good advice and performed a seemly, unchaotic departure in the winter months.

Biden still decided to blame Trump though, along with the Afghans, for his fuck up. Either he can't change what Trump did, in which he's a weak president and no better than Trump, or he takes responsibility for his own actions.

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Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 23/08/2021 10:52

@user1471457751

The original deadline under Trump was May, maybe Biden felt there was a limit to how much you could extend especially given Trump had removed about 80% of the armed forces stationed there. And let's face it, the Taliban knew this withdrawal was coming and has spent ages building support/paying off corrupt people. Whether they withdrew now or in December, the outcome would be the same.

No, withdrawing in December would have been massively different, due to the weather and the culture of the "fighting season".

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Fiddliestofsticks · 23/08/2021 10:54

They should have ordered civilians out first. There should have been repatriation before he yanked all the troops and ordered the remaining to stay at the airport.

However, this was going to happen no matter when Biden finished the withdrawal. Either the west keep troops there forever or the Taliban get in power. That's it.

CorrBlimeyGG · 23/08/2021 10:57

I disagree with the way it is being done, but to suggest they're hurrying to get out before the anniversary is utter crap. Focus on what is actually happening, not stupid theories.

Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 23/08/2021 10:57

This is the quote I was after, from Jon Sopel of the BBC:

The withdrawal came during the "fighting season" - a phrase I have to say I have always found rather odd. But in Afghanistan there is a fighting season which starts in spring - and then in winter, when the country freezes over, there is a time when the Taliban go home to their tribal homelands. Did no-one think that it might have been better to have ordered the withdrawal for the dead of winter when Taliban forces weren't there, poised to fill the vacuum?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58252174

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Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 23/08/2021 11:01

@CorrBlimeyGG

I disagree with the way it is being done, but to suggest they're hurrying to get out before the anniversary is utter crap. Focus on what is actually happening, not stupid theories.

It's not a stupid theory.

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden will withdraw all U.S. troops from Afghanistan by Sept. 11, the 20th anniversary of the terrorist attacks on America that were coordinated from that country, several U.S. officials said Tuesday

apnews.com/article/joe-biden-afghanistan-taliban-d2c54073ce67f3b162c77b4f9f2f0ddd

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CorrBlimeyGG · 23/08/2021 11:01

So you'd rather the Taliban moved in after we'd completely left? More palatable to see the Afghan people screwed over when we'd not got any of our own left there?

Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 23/08/2021 11:03

Moving out in winter would have given the Afghans more chance against the Taliban, not less.

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CorrBlimeyGG · 23/08/2021 11:04

It's not a stupid theory.

It's stupid thinking that is the primary reason behind the timing. You're cherry picking statements that support your thinking, rather than looking at the full picture. And completely ignoring that this was agreed during Trump's presidency.

CorrBlimeyGG · 23/08/2021 11:07

The Afghan army had no chance against the Taliban. There is no true, coordinated, adequately armed Afghan army.

Your lack of knowledge is exasperating, but hopefully this thread will help you understand the situation out there. Although no one can quite understand what on earth we've been doing there post stabilisation. There needs to be an inquiry into this, we've failed massively.

Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 23/08/2021 17:53

@CorrBlimeyGG

It's not a stupid theory.

It's stupid thinking that is the primary reason behind the timing. You're cherry picking statements that support your thinking, rather than looking at the full picture. And completely ignoring that this was agreed during Trump's presidency.

Ah, well you probably want to argue with the military man they had on World At One on Radio 4 today, who said exactly what I said that, months ago, Biden decided that he wanted to be able to say "Mission accomlished!" on the twentieth anniversary of 9/11. I'm sure he doesn't know as much about it as you do!

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Abhannmor · 23/08/2021 18:15

Dunno really. Trump wanted out on the 1st May.

Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 24/08/2021 09:01

Exactly. You either have to leave before the summer, or after it. Not right bang in the middle!

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PickUpAPepper · 24/08/2021 09:16

I don’t think the particular date is significant, but it is all to do with US politics and power games. What’s the alternative, that they do something for the good of ordinary people? Not what the US is about with its cults of wealth, youth, celebrity and absolute terror of socialism, is it?

notimagain · 24/08/2021 09:42

Biden mentioned 9/11 in all this but correlation doesn’t equal causation.

IMVHO time to have got out would possibly have been late spring (this year).

If I’ve got the sequence right at that time US troop numbers were down to a few thousand.

Why the current adminstration delayed beyond that not sure (lack of confidence in the ANA and thoughts they needed a bit more support training ? , perhaps a realization that the ANA were never going to hold the line and that there were umpteen thousand US nationals still in country who didn’t really seem to be in a rush to leave…dunno?

Given the above perhaps then a hope (i.e. missjudgement) that the Taliban would sit back for 12 months and the withdrawal could be done winter 21/22 ?

This Summer arrives and the Taliban roll everybody back to Kabul.

Now we are where we are with further delay not being a realistic possibility.

PickUpAPepper · 24/08/2021 14:20

The Economist mentions 9/11 as a date actually, or is that where you got it from op? Stupid way of determining dates.

Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 24/08/2021 18:38

@PickUpAPepper

I don’t think the particular date is significant, but it is all to do with US politics and power games. What’s the alternative, that they do something for the good of ordinary people? Not what the US is about with its cults of wealth, youth, celebrity and absolute terror of socialism, is it?

It's massively significant - it's the twentieth anniversary of 9/11 this year, and Biden wants the US to be out of Afghanistan by next week, so he can be the big man.

And don't forget that Biden said the buck stops with him, then blamed Trump and the Afghanis for the current chaos.

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Original poster

ThisBeTheName · 24/08/2021 18:41

Did you not notice the way the Americans abandoned their Bagram airbase in the middle of the night, with no warning - they didn't even let the Afghan army know - so looters got their before them.

Imagine the outrage if Trump had done that...

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FreshFreesias · 24/08/2021 18:52

Biden is a disaster and has blood on his hands.
It’s heartbreaking.

notimagain · 24/08/2021 18:58

it's the twentieth anniversary of 9/11 this year, and Biden wants the US to be out of Afghanistan by next week, so he can be the big man.

So just to be clear is your theory that President Biden deliberately delayed the withdrawal so that he could claim “Mission Accomplised” on precisely the twentieth anniversary……?

FreshFreesias · 24/08/2021 19:00

@CorrBlimeyGG Why are you blaming Trump?
Biden reversed most of his decisions, why not this?
And why not pull out in winter, when the Taliban are less active?
He has gone against all expert advice and has blood on his hands.
As for how Pen Farthing and Nowzad have been treated by our government, words fail me.

Peacrock · 24/08/2021 19:00

@CorrBlimeyGG

The Afghan army had no chance against the Taliban. There is no true, coordinated, adequately armed Afghan army.

Your lack of knowledge is exasperating, but hopefully this thread will help you understand the situation out there. Although no one can quite understand what on earth we've been doing there post stabilisation. There needs to be an inquiry into this, we've failed massively.

The irony of saying OPs lack of knowledge is exasperating.

BrozTito · 24/08/2021 19:00

He has form. Iraq for example as VP. Exact same happened. US withdrew, ISIS overran