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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Help - he wants to take her kids

51 replies

Givemecoffeeplease · 22/08/2021 09:59

A friend of mine is in the process of separating from her partner - they are not married. They have two kids, 4&8. She’s from Denmark but has full residency rights here. She’s suffered from depression since the birth of her second child but is taking medication and undergoing therapy. Whilst she suffers from low mood, there has never been any question of her ability to parent her children. I think she’s a great mum.

Her partner is saying her behaviour is affecting the children and he wants to have sole parental rights. I know legally he can’t just take them away from her, but what can she do in this situation? They still live together so I’m urging her to get separate accommodation and sort out a parenting split. What’s the best way to do this? I want to give her hard advice - be it see a mediator, approach a lawyer etc, but I’m not sure what to advise. AIBU to ask for your help please? Financially, they can afford to separate, but she can’t afford expensive lawyers.

Thank you

OP posts:
Accidentgirlfriend · 22/08/2021 10:02

I would worry if I was her that he could have them for the weekend and he might not bring them back . Then as he’s their Dad there isn’t much in the way of the law that he has to return them .

Lockheart · 22/08/2021 10:06

Hi OP, a lot of advice you will get on MN re the law and what she can and can't do will be at best questionable (for instance, a common favourite is to change the locks whilst he's out, which isn't legal in many cases).

She needs to seek professional advice in real life. The CAB might be a good place to start, or else I'd help her find a solicitor she can afford - pro bono work is rare for separations / divorces.

Original poster
Givemecoffeeplease · 22/08/2021 10:09

CAB is a really good shout, thank you so much!!

Yeah, changing the locks is always bandied about on here but she won’t be doing that! The aim is to have a split that is amicable, but his approach isn’t helping right now. Kids have to come first and they need to work out how a split would look.

OP posts:
Queenie6655 · 22/08/2021 10:12

Sorry I would say if she can get good legal advice ASAP

She needs to be so so careful

Can she hide the passports?

Any abuse? Maybe Womans aid can step in to offer some help?

I feel for her

Lockheart · 22/08/2021 10:15

@Queenie6655

Sorry I would say if she can get good legal advice ASAP

She needs to be so so careful

Can she hide the passports?

Any abuse? Maybe Womans aid can step in to offer some help?

I feel for her

Why would she need to hide the passports? She is Dutch, partner is apparently British (OP, please correct me if I'm wrong) and they live in the UK.

If anything, her partner should be the one hiding the passports! (This is not serious, before someone jumps on me).

titchy · 22/08/2021 10:26

It will need to go to court if they can't agree. Mediation needs to be attempted first. She can self represent at court if she can't afford representation. But court is the first step. Fee a couple of hundred quid. Post in legal for the forms she'll need to complete and an outline of the process.

Lockheart · 22/08/2021 10:30

Another thought OP but I'd get your friend to look at Relate and also at Gingerbread. They'll have lots of information about what to do and what the process is, and Gingerbread will also have lots of pages on how to speak with the children etc.

www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-separation-and-divorce

www.gingerbread.org.uk/information/separating/

Needapoodle · 22/08/2021 10:33

Isn't she trying to take his kids though?

PumpkinPie2016 · 22/08/2021 10:37

She needs to be very careful as it sounds like there is potential for him to have them and then not return them. Given that he is their father, there is little she can do if that happens.

They are not married? Is he on their birth certificates?

I would suggest she get some legal advice asap.

Willyoujustbequiet · 22/08/2021 10:37

She needs to apply to the family court for a Child Arrangement order which gives her residency of the children as currently without that if he takes them there is nothing the police can do.

She can self represent and is exempt court fees if on a low income ( this is why it's all bullshit when fathers claim they cant afford a court battle to in order to see their children.) Mediation isnt appropriate if there has been domestic abuse.

As long as there is no history of self harm or risk of abuse her mental health status wont count against her. She needs to be aware that he may apply for 50/50 shared care but it's not a given - default in this country is dads get every other weekend and half the holidays.

user1471457751 · 22/08/2021 10:38

Unless she wants a 50/50childcare split then it sounds like she wants to take his kids.

Enko · 22/08/2021 10:41

Op get her to find the facebook group danish people living in great Britain. Its a supportive group and others in similar situations have had support and found knowledgeable people who knows how to deal with the different nationalities.

Embracelife · 22/08/2021 10:43

The other side needs to be listened to
Her partner is saying her behaviour is affecting the children

Someone needs to hear from the children
You wont know what goes on behind closed doors and what her behaviour is like

Original poster
Givemecoffeeplease · 22/08/2021 10:44

She’s happy to split the access to kids in a way that is joint and fair. She isn’t trying to take them. I’ll post this in legal to see what they can offer there. Thank you.

There is no DV or abuse (her or kids). It’s just a partnership that went sour.

Thanks for the links above too. Flowers

OP posts:
pleasekeeptotheright · 22/08/2021 10:45

"Whilst she suffers from low mood, there has never been any question of her ability to parent her children."

How can you possibly know this? Hmm

You want to give her "hard advice" but don't know what that advice is? In that case you sound far from best placed to be dishing out "advice". Why don't you back off a bit and just be a shoulder to cry on when she needs it?

Doyoumind · 22/08/2021 10:46

I agree she needs legal advice and it would be worth spending some money on speaking to a solicitor. It doesn't need to be incredibly expensive but she needs to be sure the solicitor is good - so someone who comes recommended. After getting that initial advice she can self represent. Mediation will cost her money anyway, unless she's a low earner, and where there is this kind of disagreement I don't think it will be of any use. You have to consider mediation but you don't have to actually do mediation.

If he is the one pushing for this, he should be the one pushing proceedings anyway, which could mean him paying for the initial mediation meeting to confirm mediation isn't the solution and for the court fee.

Bluntness100 · 22/08/2021 10:47

Op do you live with them? How can you know her depression hasn’t impacted the children and that you’re right and their father is wrong?

CrumpetsForAll · 22/08/2021 10:52

My ex threatened to section me at one stage when we split. I called my solicitor and she asked what my mental health diagnosis from my GP was and if I’d ever harmed myself/others (none and no). She reassured me he wouldn’t be the first ex to pipe up that their ex was unstable during a court proceeding, having never raised any prior concerns and that even if I did have a history of mental health diagnoses that for the past 100+ years we have as a society seemed that people are permitted meaningful relationships with their children even if they are sometimes unwell.

She also pointed out that any MH decision would be done by a clinical practitioner and not my ex husband- in her words ‘you can’t just lock women up on their husband’s say so anymore’

Original poster
Givemecoffeeplease · 22/08/2021 10:56

Thanks for the above. Whilst I can’t know everything that goes on inside the house, I do know the kids, and I want to help my friend. I can only go on what I know, and I’m trying to do the right thing. For me, that means supporting her to separate from him in a way that is as amicable as possible, with as little damage done to the kids. They have to come first, and being stopped from seeing them mum on the whim of her partner (no police, SS or doctor involvement) doesn’t seem to be in their best interest.

They’ve been unhappy together for a long time and I want them both to be able to move on and have happier lives, with the kids at the forefront.

OP posts:
DrDetriment · 22/08/2021 10:59

He s their dad. Why shouldn't be want residency? Perhaps he's better placed to meet their needs, perhaps he's worried she'll take them back to Denmark. Why is the assumption always that the mum will have primary residency with dad getting whatever scraps mum chooses to give?

RiojaRose · 22/08/2021 11:02

Any long term health condition in a parent could have an effect on the children: arthritis, diabetes, MS… but depression is sometimes used by men against the mothers of their children when the relationship breaks down, as an accusation that the mother isn’t a fit parent. If that’s the case here, it’s manipulative and unreasonable. If there’s any history of emotional abuse in the relationship this is probably an extension of it, and it might be useful for your friend to talk to Women’s Aid.

nanbread · 22/08/2021 11:05

@DrDetriment

He s their dad. Why shouldn't be want residency? Perhaps he's better placed to meet their needs, perhaps he's worried she'll take them back to Denmark. Why is the assumption always that the mum will have primary residency with dad getting whatever scraps mum chooses to give?
Nowhere in OP's posts has she claimed her friend wants primary residency, in fact she used the words joint and fair.
Embracelife · 22/08/2021 11:09

Mediation
For 50 50 split seems good starting point

category12 · 22/08/2021 11:13

If they're still living together, where is he proposing to take the children? Hmm

He can't force her to leave the home if it is joint.

Saying he'll take the children and she's unfit just sounds just like stuff people say when they're angry and splitting unfortunately. It's unlikely to come to anything.

I wouldn't actually hurry her to move out, I think that's a mistake - she needs to do nothing in haste. If she will be the one to have to move out, she needs to take her time and find the right situation.

Legal advice and sit tight.

Original poster
Givemecoffeeplease · 22/08/2021 11:13

Yup, she’s aiming for 50:50. I completely agree, and there is no question of the dad getting ‘scraps’.

Thanks @nanbread for pointing out that this has been made clear ;)

OP posts:
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