Give me the honest truth

[CallHimMrRaider]

Been with DP 13 years and have two dc aged 7 and 9, one with sen. I’ve always known DP is on the spectrum and made allowances because I’m not the easiest person to live with either but I feel like I’ve reached my limit and the tension in our house is awful.

I’m just sick of feeling like his head is in the clouds thinking about anything other than our family. If he’s not in his phone he’s on his laptop or he’s pootling about in the garage. He thinks being at home makes him ‘present’ and engaging with any of us doesn’t seem to Cross his mind. As a result I am responsible for everything within the house as it just doesn’t occur to him/cross his mind to organise food, activities, ideas etc and the kids just deviate to me the whole time as he’s in his own little world.

We’ve had this discussion a million times and I’m so frustrated with trying to get him to connect with us all and have a day with each other that doesn’t involve him on his phone or just somewhere else in his head entirely. It’s like he doesn’t need to connect with anyone at all and it makes for such a lonely place for me. I feel at the end of my tether with it all.

The difficulty is that he’s not a bad bloke and will do anything he’s asked, but I constantly feel like I’m parenting 3 kids not two. I feel so resentful that he doesn’t play or particularly communicate with the kids, especially the one with sen who would get so much from him interacting with them and engaging with them, showing them things and spending quality time with them.

I know this is partly down to who he is as a person - he’s quiet and pretty unaware and I knew this when I got with him. I just feel so trapped now with someone who isn’t bad at all but just doesn’t bring anything to the table.I have to literally organise and put everything in place for the kids to do anything because he just leaves it all to me. Asking him to step up just seems to fall on deaf ears and he’s clearly not going to change now as we’ve been close to breaking up I’ve this a few times now and he says he’ll try harder but always just reverts to his own little world.

Am I just a high maintenance person would should be happy that I have an honest guy who loves his kids and me, but is just is a bit useless?
Kids would be devastated if we split, they completely adore him and are v sensitive type of kids who wouldn’t adjust easily. I keep thinking how we could do it amicably but My MIL is a nightmare who would blame me for everything and turn it all nasty but that’s a separate thread and a separate grudge from me about how he can never stand up to her.

Splitting the whole family would cause so much devastation but I don’t know how long I can happily trundle along with someone that I’ve lost respect for because he doesn’t seem as committed to me as making our family time fun and rewarding. If it was up to him the kids would watch TV all day.I feel so so resentful literally all the time.

AIBU?

chocolateorangeinhaler
It's not guilt it's honest. Sorry if that honest doesn't sit comfortably with you.

It’s not about whether it sits comfortably with me or not, it’s whether the OP will put up with it forever. She doesn’t want to any more. That’s nothing to feel guilty about. One can end a relationship for any reason.

Angry and chocolate it’s a discussion that has gone round my head every day for the past few years. I do try to consider the fact that it’s not easy for him and that he likely is ND, but the toll it has taken, and will take, on me is such a huge sacrifice to make. Maybe a better person would be able to be more sympathetic and understanding but I don’t like the person I’m becoming as a result of feeling trapped and miserable.

The feeling of being trapped and frustrated also makes me angry with him and I think I can be pretty horrible to him at times which adds to the messed up dynamic

OP, staying in a miserable relationship that stops you from being your best self isn't a sign of moral superiority, whatever people like chocolateorangeinhaler want you to think. You don't get any points for "choosing your children's happiness over your own", not least because that isn't actually what would be happening anyway.

There's no prize for sacrificing your happiness all your life. There's just misery that will continue to bleed out around you. It's not noble.

My ex did nothing with our son. He would come to things under duress but I was left to support every hobby and attend every football match etc( ex was a great football fan but only on TV) I also arranged activities for his children from a previous relationship when they were with us. I just wanted him to build what I view as a proper father/son relationship but I was taking both roles. He suffered with depression and some sort of personality disorder and would sulk if asked to go somewhere he didn’t want even if it was an adult activity with friends. We are now separated but to be honest life is not much different as I did everything anyway and it’s much more relaxed. DS is now a teenager and thinks his dad is a crap father ( I have never criticised him to DS) and makes little effort to see him. EX can’t see why .

@Jobsharenightmare

Don't waste time with a diagnosis, which he may not want to pursue anyway. You know all you need to. Your needs are not being met in this relationship and never will be. If he could change, he would have by now. After all, you have spoken about the same issues repeatedly.

Your kids will be fine and will thrive over the next ten years with a happier mum. They get all of their nurturing and affection from you anyway. What they get from your husband won't change wherever he lives.

This.

You are slowly dying inside.

They have one wholly disengaged parent and another who is increasingly unhappy.

To save the situation, you need to save yourself and in doing so will be a happier parent.

It sounds so lonely and awful.

@CallHimMrRaider

The feeling of being trapped and frustrated also makes me angry with him and I think I can be pretty horrible to him at times which adds to the messed up dynamic

You don’t have to continue feeling miserable and trapped. You should also get the chance to live how you want to as well.

If he is also introverted he may become overwhelmed by constant interaction and need time out on his own. So, have you ever discussed “ring fencing” his time on his own. Say like at weekend it is reasonable that you each have a 2 or 3 hour period where you get to do what you want without any reponsisibtiy, interaction or jobs. Or maybe you each get a whole day per month. Similarly in the evenings, say 2 or 3 times a week he can take himself off after x,y,,z is done
It may be more helpful to to sit and agree what he will do and when to engage with the family. I know you shouldn’t have to and you want things more spontaneous, but if he has a clear prediction and list of what he needs to do and when, in terms of his contributions and engagement with the family, it might make it be a more manageable task for him. Sorry, he is not going to change in seeing it as a task- unfortunately a lot of parents ( mostly dads) see engaging with their kids and family as a chore, never mind someone who clearly has difficulties in socialising and engagement

Sorry I should have said, don’t tell him what to do: more spell out you expect him to come up with ideas, plan and organise a family event once per fortnight for instance….

he may become overwhelmed by constant interaction and need time out on his own

Like every parent in the world, then.

My dad has what we think is undiagnosed Asperger's type autism. My mum stayed with him, but I wouldn't blame him as an adult if she hadn't.

Depending how you feel, if you think you could get last the built up resentment it's worth considering a few things. My dad was never any has never been good at emotional stuff or engagement, but he could get into a routine that facilitated it. E.g. a regular slot to take us to do his hobby, or agreeing a joint hobby with my sibling. Once they were doing that and did that he knew he had to take responsibility for that.

Then the other bit was splitting up tasks by people's strengths. He would never have been good at dealing with e.g. homework because it's not regular, deadlines change and it's not happening to him. But he could take on responsibility for dealing with the garden, and dealing with car insurance and all the other annually purchased stuff like travel insurance, gas and electricity, sorting MOTs out - regular things that he could plan for. So then those things are in his remit, can be programmed into his internal algorithm and then potter along without too much intervention. It doesn't fix it, it's unlikely to - because "fixing it" like he's doing at the moment, it's asking someone else to do something that takes an enormous amount of concentration and effort compared to the amount it takes us. But it can cut your mental load in other ways.

Just to reiterate though, I would definitely understand if my parents had split up.

Perhaps your children don’t need a NT Dad to create an NT childhood for them. Perhaps the reason they love him so much is he is what they need? Perhaps you need to let go of what you think constitutes good family time and explore what is satisfying to the ND meme era of your family? It’s ok for him to be himself. Love him for himself or leave him but don’t squish him into your idea of a good Dad.

There’s a lot of good advice here OP. This may be a helpful perspective. After 30 years, it’s only recently occurred to me, with therapy, that my OH is almost certainly ASD. (I know - I just couldn’t see it!) He doesn’t know I think that and would never go for a diagnosis. But this is the thing: we were happy together for years, and happy with our DC. He’s a good man. But then around puberty my until now delightful DC became challenging (I suspect they are also on the spectrum), particularly with me. As the behaviour escalated, and I got more upset, crying every day etc, I tried to discuss many many times with DH. Long story short - there was no engagement or support from DH. I now realise because he shuts down around anything to do with emotions - doesn’t get it. In fact, he would blame me - over-sensitive, not that bad etc. Over time, I started to unravel, the frustration built up, and I began to exhibit some extreme behaviour myself - call it rage (also self harming). I’m not proud of this and it’s damaged my relationship with DC. Fast forward and we’re all miserable, most of the time. DH thinks he’s a great dad but he can’t understand that a lot of his behaviour is making DC worse - more anxious, more angry, feelings of invalidation etc. I think I will have to leave - huge change of life in my dotage! Take from this what you will - but you have to consider whether your partner will be present if/when you encounter challenges in the future and, as my therapist has said - ‘You can do this (ie be strong for all) - but do you want to?’ Also that self-care is very important.

@CallHimMrRaider

So he’s done what he usually does this morning after me telling him (for the umpteenth time) how unhappy I am: he’s got up at a decent time, talked to the kids more and mainly stayed off his phone, suggested we go to the local cafe for breakfast and just generally been more engaged with us all. Hasn’t turned the radio on to drown out the kids like he usually does. This lasts for a maximum of a week before he reverts back again. It pisses me off because it shows me that he CAN do it, it’s just effort that he can’t be arsed to make most of the time

This and your previous comment:

Yep had dozens of frank, cards on the table talks and he is attentive to all of us for a week or two then reverts back to normal behaviour.

Is really telling. It may be that his own SEN are relevant but he clearly does understand what is expected of him by you, he really just can’t keep it up for a sustained period. If I were being really generous I would say that’s because it’s very difficult for him but it’s hard not to fall to the (IMO more likely) explanation that he just doesn’t want to and doesn’t see it as important for him.

For me, that would tell me what I needed to do.

@CallHimMrRaider it sounds hard, no one would blame you for deciding to split, and has many have said, your DC will adapt, it’s your life, be happy.

@Fieldsofgold21 💐 couldn’t read and not reply, I’m glad your therapy is helping and good luck with whatever comes next. Can you be honest with your DC? Tell them what you’ve said here, not blaming just explaining? Then you will all hopefully be able to move to a other place with each other - emotionally as well as physically.

But is it reasonable to assume he can’t engage with the kids and offer fun/chat/companionship and ideas because he’s in the spectrum and that should just be accepted? Surely other people on the spectrum organise fun activities with their kids and play/chat with them to aid their development and build strong attachments? It feels a bit like letting him off the hook to say it’s the ASD that prevents this

My OH has ASD, like DS and DSS, and those things just don't come naturally to him either.

We've had many a discussion and, like your DH, he will make a conscious effort for a period of time following the conversation. He tries because he loves us, cares and has some insight into how some of his traits can be a bit difficult for the family unit. He isn't that way because he doesn't enjoy family life or want to have a close relationship with his kids. He's that way because he's autistic.

For me, it is good enough and I'm happy to prompt him every so often when he's slipping back into old habits because life is about give and take. I'm sure I drive him potty with my ways sometimes too. I guess it boils down to whether you're happy to spend the next X amount of years prompting him?

When I've brought things to his attention he'll go above and beyond to fix the problem and push himself to do things differently which can be very difficult for people with autism whos routines and coping mechanisms are an intrinsic part of who they are.

I certainly don't think it's LTB territory but then I'm not you, it's your life at the end of the day.

I am familiar with a family in the same circumstances. While together the mum did everything and the dad seemed so scattered and all over the place. Their ds was also on the spectrum..diagnosed. They split up. Dad had dc at weekends. I was amazed at what the dad and his ds did together at the weekends. Not the usual things we see families doing but a huge interest of the dad became the ds interest too. They were so happy together. No other child locally had that interest but it was the exact right one for the son. He adored his dad and was full of chat of the activity they did together and the life advice his dad gave him while they worked together. This especially happened as he became a teenager.
So dm continued to do the logical, organised stuff but the dad came into his own at weekends. Unfortunately it didn't work as well for their other child but she did her activities during mom time midweek and joined in without the same passion at weekends. He did manage to feed/drop off / sleep to schedule and the main thing was the dm wasn't off her head with the constant stress. Also the dad had the week to work quietly at his own job which was demanding but solitary and get all that time alone that he obviously craved.
This will destroy you. You only have one life. Take care of your own needs.

@chocolateorangeinhaler

So you have a sen child, said he is probably on the spectrum, he's accepted he is too. You need a diagnosis, he might not be. But if he is, you constantly asking him to engage is a bit like screaming at a blind person for not being able to see. Or doing the can can in front of a paralyzed person and saying they are being lazy and if they would only try they could do exactly what you can. Your DH can't. He's not neurotypical. He can mimic what you want him to do but that's it. Do you think he is calculatingly acting like this year on year just to annoy you? He won't ever change - he can't. His brain is just wired differently. Try understanding how frustrating it must be to not be 'normal' and have the threat of your family being ripped apart if you can't 'act' normal. The anxiety over that axe over his head would make his behavior worse not better. Get him a diagnosis first. Then go from there. All you need to do is call the GP to start the ball rolling.

I totally agree with this. Knowing a lot more than I'd like about the ASD community, it can be life changing to get a diagnosis as an adult. I suggest your first port of call should be the National Autistic Society.

Thank you @Waterfallgirl - I’ll consider this x

Thank you all so much for your replies. There is so much food for thought here. We are currently out at the café and he is playing super dad so will read all the replies properly after and respond.

@CallHimMrRaider

Thank you all so much for your replies. There is so much food for thought here. We are currently out at the café and he is playing super dad so will read all the replies properly after and respond.

So he's trying. It's more than can be said for alot of the men people post about on here and on the relationships board.

It pisses me off because it shows me that he CAN do it, it’s just effort that he can’t be arsed to make most of the time

I can understand that this is really frustrating for you, but I think you're saying "he can't be arsed" when you could be saying "He has tried to perform a part but can't keep it up without a break indefinitely". That is likely to be what is happening: your partner is acting a part, learning new lines and pretending to be something he's not. This is not uncommon in people with autism; to fit in with societal expectations, you have to pretend all the time. All day. There are many rules that you are not aware of so you slip up from time and time, the consequences for these mistakes are often funny looks, sarcastic remarks and exclusion. All the time in school or work, you have to be thinking of how you are presenting and whether you will cope with the next hurdle, and that's just being with people and not focusing on doing your job/schoolwork. It's relentless and exhausting playing a part that isn't natural to you.

So it might not be that he can't be arsed, it might be that he does have a disabling condition with significant impairments and is trying to manage it the best he can without having had the advantage of additional support and suggested strategies to manage situations.

It's still up to you whether you decide to split or not, you might well feel that you will both benefit from separating and parenting separately. Whatever works best for your family.

That is likely to be what is happening: your partner is acting a part, learning new lines and pretending to be something he's not. This is not uncommon in people with autism; to fit in with societal expectations, you have to pretend all the time.

I could not maintain a relationship with someone for whom engaging in family life and spending time with us was "acting a part", "something they're not" and "pretending all the time", whatever the reason. Wouldn't see much benefit in a living arrangement that required them to be so enervatingly dishonest all the time, either.

Wouldn't see much benefit in a living arrangement that required them to be so enervatingly dishonest all the time, either

They can't win can they?

If they are themselves then they're a bad husband / father, yet if they mask in order to meet societal expectations and make their partner happy then they're dishonest and still not good enough.

Why don't we just condemn people on the spectrum to a life of loneliness and solitude, after all that's what they want isn't it?

I think you both need to think about rules and adaptations not 'him doing better' as he has a presumed disability and will keep 'failing'. So say he can follow rules like 'we will have a family meeting /parent meeting every Thursday evening and decide what needs doing and who does what' and is then capable of following it through (rather than expecting him to do something vague like engage which may be a foreign language to him. You of course should not be responsible for remembering the meeting, or choosing everything, that's on both of you. Then 'you need to spend between one and two hours every day doing an activity with the children individually or together that they enjoy and need to be available to meet their needs when they come to you the rest of the time' (then start saying 'would you ask daddy please'.) Then add your wishes for couple time 'I'd like us to eat together with a glass of wine several times a week' 'I'd like us to socialise with friends' and his needs for solo time and absorbing interests (which will stop him getting burnt out). Then road test the rules and plans and keep adapting them until family life is working. Spell things out practically. State how things make you feel but don't expect him to get your signals as he might not be good on that sense. You don't have to stay with him for any reason but it seems like it has potential to get better if you want to try. You don't have to.