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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask cocaine taking dd to leave?

83 replies

WingingItSince1973 · 21/08/2021 12:43

My middle adult dd and her ds age 6 came back to live with us 3 weeks ago after housesharing went wrong. My dd has had a rough few years getting pregnant as a young adult then going through social services to fight to keep ds when it was found that the father of ds had been abusing him. Anyway over the years we have supported them both, almost bringing up dgs. Hes had serious mental health issues and has really only just started to settle down at school. Dd has had her own flat and a good steady job in a good career though always keeping her party girl status. So we found out that she's a frequent cocaine user. This explains how she has been since they moved home. She 'nips' out late evening to see friends then rocks home early hours usually 3am but has been 6 and 7 am. Shes super skinny and hardly eats but sleeps and sleeps which is then causing her to be late starting work (she wfh). My dgs gets neglected in the sense that she doesn't feed him until she's awake which can be 11/12 pm and she hasn't made him a proper meal or bathed him since they've been here. This apparently was what life was like for dgs when they lived away from here. I do look after him and feed and nurture him and have now stepped right in as his main care giver. When he was 10 months old my dh and me were approved as Foster carers for him when it looked like family court might want him to stay with us. Ok so I haven't enabled a AIBU as doing this on my phone while I have 5 mines alone. She denies flat out and is practically laughing at how stupid we are but we have solid evidence and witnesses that she was taking it in where she lived before while my dgs was upstairs. I want her out of my house. I have a teenager too who is really anxious anyway due to all we've been through with middle dd over the years and now this. Please please can someone help me. We have a great support network of friends and family so we aren't alone and we will seek help. I'm terrified of SS getting involved again. Dgs is absolutely loved and well cared for with us. Please someone help.

OP posts:
Notimeforaname · 21/08/2021 13:44

Shes had a history of self destruction from 16 years old. She was bought up in a loving kind family. We had horses and always doing healthy happy things. Then she fell in with a bad lad and fell pregnant. We supported her and we adore our dgs but have never tried to take over as at times she seems to have it together

This is/was almost the same scenario as my good pal bit with two young kinds in the picture.

The sister was the same as your daughter , lovely family went through all you are going through. The grandparents doing most of the parenting on and off.
They had to kick the drug using adult daughter out.

More than 10 years later it is my friend who now cares for one of the children in her home...and the other child is with another family member.

The drug user is still the same way. Floats around partying
But the kids are loved and cared for.

I'm sure it seems cruel to some, to kick her out. But it's the child who matters here.

This woman is not fit to be a mother and will further damage this child if she continues to be around them.

Notimeforaname · 21/08/2021 13:45

But with two young kids *

Notimeforaname · 21/08/2021 13:50

I'm sorry op. I thought it would be very possible for SS to give you custody of the child again if they knew all of this. Considering it was so close to getting there the last time?

I think for now I would keep her under my roof if it was the only way I could keep an eye on the child.

If you can have custody of the child I would get her to leave. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. Flowers

nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut · 21/08/2021 13:51

The younger children have to come first. Kick her out, keep your grandson with you and inform police and social services that you are doing so. Like fuck would I be handing any child in my family over to an irresponsible druggie, parent or not.

Who is looking after him when she is out half the night? Is he home alone? And even when she is home she is neglecting him? I'm sorry OP but he needs to be removed from her and either live with you or be taken into care. The poor child has been through more than enough and social services need to be involved now.

Steelesauce · 21/08/2021 13:53

My friend was like this. Went off the rails after having her daughter young. Her parents took control. She did eventually sort herself out, took years mind. Now she has 2 more kids and her daughter back with her at the age of 31 and is doing amazing. Id take control of the situation and involve who you need to involve.

Daydrambeliever · 21/08/2021 13:55

Firstly you need to formalise your caring relationship with your grandson. Do speak to social services and seek a residency order that will prevent her from removing him from your home.

Please don't burn bridges with your daughter. It sounds as though she has mental health issues which need to be addressed and managed. If you feel you can support her for a bit longer make it contingent on a visit to the GP to organise therapy or go private if she has the funds. Lots of people get pregnant at 19 and struggle to adapt but they don't all continue to struggle, have relationships with abusers or abuse drugs. There seems to be an underlying issue here and she will only ever be able to be a great mum if she deals with these now.

Don't panic. I know a family who were in your exact position and had to have social service involvement and a residency order. 10 years later the family is settled, there is no drug use and everyone is happy.

WingingItSince1973 · 21/08/2021 14:11

My dgs was on child protection from 8 months to just over 2 years. He lived with us from 8 months until end of child protection though I had him everyday while she worked. We don't have a sw team anymore as he was signed off. School are aware of his history. When she is right she is a kind loving girl but she also has a terrible terrible selfish streak and has been absolutely awful to us many times when she's been caught out with other things. She doesn't handle being accused of things well and is now saying she has mental illness and we making it worse. I have tried to get her to talk to the doctors about it for years but she won't

OP posts:
WingingItSince1973 · 21/08/2021 14:12

Sorry me again. Yes she knows the score now but is just sending me laughing messages at how stupid we are

OP posts:
Zebracat · 21/08/2021 14:35

Please please contact Children’s Services. You have no legal rights in respect of this child and the priority is to protect him. There is no reason to suppose that this will mean your family life will become public knowledge. My guess is that everyone in your area knows that your daughter is a cocaine user. It is clear that you love her, but honestly she sounds a terrible mother, demanding the child back today, because she can, and finding that funny.

WingingItSince1973 · 21/08/2021 14:40

@Zebracat thank you. I'm not embarrassed about people knowing only in the sense I don't want dealers knocking on our door if she ever owes them money but as she has full time wages and quite a good salary I don't think we are in danger of that. Alot of people have known about our situation as I've had alot of support and know people from dgs nursery etc etc. I'm just so so worried of opening a can of worms with ss and risk dgs being taken from us. Though these is no reason for this to happen but his previous sw has moved on now so how can I be sure. Plus I don't have any physical evidence apart from what I've said earlier

OP posts:
1forAll74 · 21/08/2021 14:43

Is she not sensible enough to understand anything about what she is doing with her life, and that of her son.. I am not that familiar with drug use, and what it does to the minds of people., except makes them addicts, and uncaring about all other things..

I wouldn't go along with the statements, that she might grow out of this drug taking, you never can say that, she may go on a more downward spiral at some point.. And no child should be with her. It will be a long time, before her child can get into a more level existence, and he needs you most of all I expect.

2bazookas · 21/08/2021 14:43

Well, you could offer her a choice.

Either she stops lying, admits her habit and takes immediate steps to come clean and stop using by target date.

Or she leaves right away and you initiate obtaining permanent guardianship of DGS.

My guess is she will pick the second.

WhateverHappenedToFayWray · 21/08/2021 14:53

Your poor Grandson

Notimeforaname · 21/08/2021 14:58

Please report to social services and try to open this back up. She is neglecting her child.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 21/08/2021 15:04

You dont have any physical evidence but you have as previous involvement, evidence from school, nursery and probably a lot of other agencies who can corroborate that you're the primary caregiver already. If she wanted to prove she was clean she could do a drugs test to prove it

Zebracat · 21/08/2021 15:10

@WingingItSince1973. I do sympathise. I have a child living with me for similar reasons, under an SGO.If you dont contact Children’s Services, knowing your daughter is using and neglecting her child, then they may feel you have failed to protect him. Because he was previously on the register, they will take your concerns very seriously. As you know,the scrutiny of kinship carers is really intense, and you were successfully assessed before. If your concerns are verified, they will be really pleased that this very vulnerable little boy has a safe and familiar home available. There is also a massive national shortage of foster carers, so very few alternatives. Also, it sounds like this child can and will vehemently express a preference, which he was unable to do as a baby.

I know you must feel that you are between a rock and a hard place, but actually you are in a much better place than before. Of course everyone, including you, would have hoped that your daughter would step up once the father was out of the picture. She hasn’t, despite lots of love and support. Meanwhile your grandson has clearly suffered significant harm.

stillsleeptraining · 21/08/2021 15:15

How wonderful that your DGS has you in his life.

I had a pretty traumatic childhood and would have been much better off with my grandparents. I don't really understand the principle bending over backwards to keep children with their parents if there's a another, better option. Kids need to be safe, loved and stable.

If you can be his primary carers, it sounds like it would be the best thing for him.

perfectstorm · 21/08/2021 15:22

I think you need to speak to a solicitor who knows the system, really. A specialist in children's law. This is such a complicated situation.

My thoughts, on what you've said: one problem is that as a homeless person with a child, she's priority in housing terms, so GS is an asset to her, bluntly, if she's kicked out - she has no such priority otherwise. And SS have - necessarily, given the huge intrusion on family rights of separating parent and child - very low standards for minimum levels of care. In terms of the OP offering better care within the family, well, sure, but parents have a presumption in their favour. So if DD is angry enough at the SC being involved behind her back, she could use the best weapon at her disposal, too, which is taking DGS and making a show of working with SC to placate them long enough to get them off her back, and then OP would have a battle on her hands just to stay in his life at all. I do understand why you're so worried. (I say that as someone who has requested Social Care involvement for my kids due to disability before and had Safeguarding sent around instead, as we were in an EHCP battle - they were bloody wonderful. Wrote us a report that lauded us to the skies, and were scathing as could be about the SEN provision from the LA - nobody could have more reason to know how brilliant social workers can be! It's not the social workers I see as a problem here - it's the DD's reaction to their being brought in over her head, and the law being heavily weighted towards parental rights. If she could put her son first, and react like an adult, the problem wouldn't arise).

There is another alternative - to offer to put a deposit on a 1 bed or studio flat for her, and she can leave DGS with you, but you need PR, in case of accident, for schools and for stability, so she needs to consent to a Child Arrangements Order in your favour as part of that plan. You never know - she could get it together in future, and he needs contact with his mum, so you could maybe agree to Sunday lunches, days out set in the CAO. Even if she doesn't bother to do it, at least you've tried to keep that connection for him, and if you keep a record of her contact efforts, you can evidence it if she just drops him, too, and at the least insist on a slow and consistent return to her if and when she does get her act together later - if she's not got that act together, she won't be consistent with a staged return, either. You get all of this written up formally, and keep a paper trail, and then she would need to launch her own legal action to get him back - which would mean a Judge oversaw it all. From what you say, how likely would she be to do that? And if its' a private arrangement, and not a state one, she'd have no right to legal aid to get it changed - she'd agreed it was in his best interests. And to get her to agree to it I think focusing on her self interest would be best: a house of her own, contact with her son (also in his interests) so she feels she's not losing him, yet none of the hard graft and unselfishness that caring for small kids necessarily requires.

I'm afraid I don't know if you can still get what used to be called a Residence Order in your favour which automatically confers PR and states that your home is where he lives - I know it was, but the law changes so fast. You need to ask a family solicitor for advice really.

Your GS needs stability, and you need to ensure he has it. In your position, that's what I would be looking to do. I'm sad for her but she's not a child, he is, and you have to focus on him.

I realise you won't get the foster care payments that might be available otherwise, but it does reduce any chance that she will hit back at you from spite and take him just to make a point. And if you have PR and a Child Arrangements Order, then you'd get child benefit and top-ups to Universal Credit, I would imagine.

Social Care would be the best option only if you are quite sure your DD would rather leave him with you, even if it meant she had to sort her own housing, and even if she saw that as you having 'won'. Only you can know her temperament - perhaps I'm wrong, and she's not prone to immaturity in that specific way along with the rest. If you're certain she won't do that, and can sort her own housing out (or if you think if you offer the 1st month plus deposit she will go even with Social Care involved, and him staying at yours) then Social Care would be best because, bluntly, your grandson is going to need one hell of a lot of support and accessing that support is easier when on Social Care's radar.

I'm so sorry. It sounds heartbreaking. But he's been exposed to God knows what in his short life and he needs to feel safe and loved and wanted - and with a routine that is so key to that, for small children.

Again, I'd talk to a specialist solicitor about next steps. They will have seen a variation on this theme more often than they would ever want to, I'm sure. If they tell you to get Social Care involved, having considered all the angles, then you can feel safe about doing so.

perfectstorm · 21/08/2021 15:24

[quote Zebracat]@WingingItSince1973. I do sympathise. I have a child living with me for similar reasons, under an SGO.If you dont contact Children’s Services, knowing your daughter is using and neglecting her child, then they may feel you have failed to protect him. Because he was previously on the register, they will take your concerns very seriously. As you know,the scrutiny of kinship carers is really intense, and you were successfully assessed before. If your concerns are verified, they will be really pleased that this very vulnerable little boy has a safe and familiar home available. There is also a massive national shortage of foster carers, so very few alternatives. Also, it sounds like this child can and will vehemently express a preference, which he was unable to do as a baby.

I know you must feel that you are between a rock and a hard place, but actually you are in a much better place than before. Of course everyone, including you, would have hoped that your daughter would step up once the father was out of the picture. She hasn’t, despite lots of love and support. Meanwhile your grandson has clearly suffered significant harm.[/quote]
Cross posted - I'd not have posted, had I read this first, as you are far more expert in the situation.

perfectstorm · 21/08/2021 15:34

Sorry, missed that she's on a good salary! Bluntly, that never crossed my mind, given the chaos of her lifestyle and how young she was when she had him. Scratch the concerns re. social housing/deposit etc on a new place.

billy1966 · 21/08/2021 15:37

From what you have written OP, your grandson is one damaged, traumatised little boy.

Screaming leaving you is the clue.

I would be involving child services asap.

She is a selfish woman who is utterly neglecting her child.

He would have been far better off adopted.

Get on to services and keep your GS with you.

He is not safe with a drug taker.
Be prepared to call the police.

Your other children and grandson are your priority here.

It sounds very tough.

WingingItSince1973 · 21/08/2021 15:59

I would just like to emphasise that my dgs is a very much loved and cherished little boy. I've seen him almost every day of his life apart from times when his mum was doing well and had things together. Then she gets a meltdown and can't cope. He's now a very calm, thoughtful and kind little man. We have great adventures. We visit lots of places together and I do all sorts of playing with him. I'm very much into play therapy etc etc. My family are very mindful of his early life trauma and he does thrive when he's with us. He does love his mum alot too but seems to want to be with me all the time. Though when they had their house he did like to go home occasionally. Though his life was mainly in his bedroom playing xbox. I've been encouraging my daughter to engage more with him regards to writing, reading etc but she always says she's too tired from work and I guess it's been easier to just let him chill after school. This isn't how I've parented at all and when we do crafts etc together he really shines. I can't begin to tell you what a fantastic wonderful child he is and he amazes me everyday. But sadly she can't be consistent with his care. She does have her moments but I don't think she quite understands the impact her decisions has on his little mind and feelings.

OP posts:
WingingItSince1973 · 21/08/2021 16:02

@perfectstorm

Sorry, missed that she's on a good salary! Bluntly, that never crossed my mind, given the chaos of her lifestyle and how young she was when she had him. Scratch the concerns re. social housing/deposit etc on a new place.
Shes on a good salary for her age bracket and level of position. Its a good company and good career. Although very demanding at times but she is taking it for granted. As before with her flat and then her house we have always helped out to furnish etc etc. The house was private and we paid the deposit which we haven't got back as we said she could use it for her next property. She does have alot of help from us. She runs a car, gym membership, weekends away etc and now obviously drugs!
OP posts:
Notimeforaname · 21/08/2021 16:08

She is still neglecting her child.
Even if you are doing everything for him (and thank goodness you are!) the fact remains. Shes neglectful and drug addicted. Please report her again

perfectstorm · 21/08/2021 16:32

He needs to have her involved in his life as someone he has regular (supervised, even if just in terms of meals in your house) contact with, but his primary care needs to be you.

Still think speaking to an experienced lawyer is your best bet. They will know what the optimal steps are from here.

I am so sorry. It must be horrendous to deal with.