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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

. . . to think parents are being naive about our "inheritance"?

314 replies

OhFFSNotAnotherVirus · 21/08/2021 08:04

Just pondering . . . for some reason it's niggling at me, maybe because I find their lack of understanding frustrating!

I also want to point out that I in no way "expect" anything from my parents - I've been financially independent since I was 18 and I'm proud of what I've achieved by myself.

Parent are 65, I have one brother and one sister. Parents gave my brother their life savings (close to £100k) so he could buy a nicer house than he could afford by himself. Parents told me and my sister that they would change their wills to leave their house (a small townhouse worth about £200k) to the two of us, to make it fair.

I don't think it is fair, though. Chances are the house will be sold in the future to pay for their care. They seem blissfully unaware that this is a possibility - or a likelihood - and seem almost smug about having done the right thing by all three of their children. I've brought up the possibility that the house might need to be sold to pay for care, but they dismissed this, saying absolutely not, they wouldn't be going into a home, they'd rather go to Dignitas first . . .

I'm saying nothing further, there's no point and I know there's no entitlement here. But AIBU to be a bit . . . Hmm?

Oh and this all happened a couple of years ago and they haven't changed their wills anyway Grin

OP posts:
Broccoli123 · 24/08/2021 12:09

@GnomeDePlume that's exactly the issue. It's in the will that I benefit but it was put in the control of B & C who clearly couldn't care less whether I benefit or not as long as the money is there when they want it.

There's no point at all leaving someone money if they can't access it and have no control over what's done with it.

Curlygirl06 · 24/08/2021 13:02

I've said this before and I'll say it again. My mum's will overly favoured my brother (favourite). We were all in the same life stages, house, jobs, mortgages, children. Eventually it's sorted and now back to equal shares as it has been up until her and dad changed their wills in favour of golden boy. No family arguments, no reason to do it. I've asked my dad several times why and he can't give a reason, just it was what my mother wanted.
It's caused a huge family rift that still has lingering effects, and makes me sad that my parents thought more of him than us.
I've given my children different amounts relating to house purchases but it's clearly stated in the will how our estate is to be divided if there's any left, so as to make it fair. They have a letter we've written explaining it in easy terms, rather than in legalese and they were given the letter now so that if they think it's unclear or unfair they can discuss it now. I never want my children or step children to feel that they matter less to us, as I felt with regards to my parents. It's shit.

GnomeDePlume · 24/08/2021 13:59

There's no point at all leaving someone money if they can't access it and have no control over what's done with it.

I totally agree.

My DM has apparently decided to leave the bulk of her estate to her DGCs (fine, her prerogative). Unfortunately she is very much influenced by DB1 who sees her estate as 'DF's Money' and wants the money to be kept together and held in a trust which he wants to control - not for him to benefit but for him to prevent the money being spent.

Broccoli123 · 24/08/2021 14:07

It was a similar situation in our family except B had benefited greatly from A during their lifetime and ensured that the trust was set up so that they could continue to do so after their death.

It's now nearly all gone thanks to their wanton spending and some spectacularly bad business decisions. A wouldn't be at all happy that it wasn't used for its intended purpose and that I didn't have the same financial assistance that B & C both had.

B & C both say everything they've done has been with the approval of a solicitor so it may be legally right but it certainly isn't morally right.

GnomeDePlume · 24/08/2021 16:01

B & C both say everything they've done has been with the approval of a solicitor so it may be legally right but it certainly isn't morally right.

It might be worth checking this with a different solicitor. If the solicitor has failed in their duty then there may be recourse.

Of course, if it is legal then you will have to swallow it but at least then you know you did what you could.

toconclude · 24/08/2021 16:35

@MargosKaftan

Yes, theres a chance it will go on care.

Theres also a chance that by the time they die, they haven't needed to spend anything on care (or can cope with someone coming in), and the house is worth a hell of a lot more than £200k.

This. I've said it before and will say it again: only 15 pc of over 85s are in care homes. They could sever the joint tenancy if they wanted so that on one death half the property becomes yours and sister's.
toconclude · 24/08/2021 16:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cabingirl · 24/08/2021 16:55

[quote GingerAndTheBiscuits]@TractorAndHeadphones

As far as I have seen it’s not whether they have a condition that needs care. If anyone is of sufficiently advanced age then it’s deemed deprivation of assets
If it’s a 70 year old (no matter how spry) it would definitely be deprivation.

That’s not the case. The local authority has to show

(a) whether avoiding the care and support charge was a significant motivation in the timing of the disposal of the asset; at the point the capital was disposed of could the person have a reasonable expectation of the need for care and support?
(b) did the person have a reasonable expectation of needing to contribute to the cost of their eligible care needs?

Simply being a certain age would not be a deciding factor. The guidance gives an example of a person buying a car and then giving it to their daughter two weeks later, after they go into a care home. If the person already knew they were going to be moving into the home, it could be deprivation of assets. If the person (be they age 30 or 50 or 90) was in good health at the time of purchase but then fell downstairs or had a stroke or was hit by a car, it wouldn’t be deprivation because they didn’t have a reasonable expectation of needing to contribute to the cost of the care at the time of purchase. But the local authority would probably look at it very closely to be sure.

It’s all set out here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/care-act-statutory-guidance/care-and-support-statutory-guidance in Annex E and most councils will also have their own policies available.

For the poster who mentioned putting property in trust, that is a specific example given in the guidance of a deprivation of assets. Councils are broke. They will (rightly) look for any way to reduce their financial liability. They will examine any and all cases of possible deprivation extremely closely.[/quote]
What about this situation?

DM dies and leaves her half of house to child with the understanding that DF will continue to live and maintain house for as long as he is alive.

DF needs care home over 11 years later. Is the 50% share of the house left to child protected? At time of DM death there was no sign of need for care home but DF was 71.

Broccoli123 · 24/08/2021 17:04

@GnomeDePlume it's on my to do list. There are certain things they've done which I'm fairly sure aren't legal but I'm unsure if anything can be done without costing a huge amount in legal fees, which is money I don't have.

Halliabaloo · 24/08/2021 17:05

My mother-in-law goes on and on about leaving her estate divided equally which is very sweet of her. It really does grate my gears when one of her children has had childcare from her that would have cost approx £200,000 in the real world, (and I’ve had a barrage of snide remarks over the years about being a SAHM, though now the main earner.)

No, it’s not fair or equal, but is it worth the fallout if you say anything? If it’s not just keep quiet!

Curlygirl06 · 24/08/2021 17:10

@cabingirl same situation here, my dad may need care soon but the part of his house that is in trust for us children can't be touched, as it's not his. My mum and him owned the house as tenants in common so mum could will her part to us on the proviso that dad could live in the house.

HollyGrail · 24/08/2021 17:17

Is DF paying you rent as it is not his house?

Moulesvinrouge1 · 24/08/2021 17:26

@Bobbybobbins

I find the avoidance of paying for fare very depressing. I want my parents (if they need it) to have the best possible care in their final years. The council funded care should be reserved for those who genuinely can't pay for it themselves.
I find it sad and selfish too. Disabled children all over the UK are being deprived of suitable educations and cash strapped schools are flying by a wing and a prayer but you hold on to your nice lump sum, eh, and everyone else can pay for you.
TractorAndHeadphones · 24/08/2021 17:34

@cabingirl based on the guidance that probably doesn’t count. As the house passed from your mother to you upon her death. It legally has nothing whatsoever to do with your father.
I could be wrong however.

TractorAndHeadphones · 24/08/2021 17:34

*share of the house not the whole house ofc.

cabingirl · 24/08/2021 17:40

@HollyGrail

Is DF paying you rent as it is not his house?
No rent paid - half of house also is still his. And the Will they made when DM was dying made it clear that he was responsible for all maintenance and upkeep of property, and could choose to sell or not for as long as he is alive. I would only have access to my 50% either on sale of house or his death.
Billandben444 · 24/08/2021 17:56

It really does grate my gears when one of her children has had childcare from her that would have cost approx £200,000 in the real world
Wow, this thread is rattling some cages! Do you know exactly to the penny how much you've missed out on? I've helped my daughter out with free childcare as she's a single parent who works full time. My son is married and they manage their childcare between them - in your eyes, should I be giving him a lump sum to compensate for not being a single parent?

TractorAndHeadphones · 24/08/2021 18:02

@Billandben444

It really does grate my gears when one of her children has had childcare from her that would have cost approx £200,000 in the real world Wow, this thread is rattling some cages! Do you know exactly to the penny how much you've missed out on? I've helped my daughter out with free childcare as she's a single parent who works full time. My son is married and they manage their childcare between them - in your eyes, should I be giving him a lump sum to compensate for not being a single parent?
Haven’t read the main post but surely childcare doesn’t count? It’s your choice whether to live near your parents. You can’t move away and then moan that they didn’t help you with childcare and so you should get more money.

Of course it’s the opposite if you both lived near parent and they helped one but not the other …

tigger1001 · 24/08/2021 18:17

@Halliabaloo

My mother-in-law goes on and on about leaving her estate divided equally which is very sweet of her. It really does grate my gears when one of her children has had childcare from her that would have cost approx £200,000 in the real world, (and I’ve had a barrage of snide remarks over the years about being a SAHM, though now the main earner.)

No, it’s not fair or equal, but is it worth the fallout if you say anything? If it’s not just keep quiet!

I don't really understand this.

From what's written here, it looks like the mil has provided free childcare not given away assets or cash, so don't see how that comes into it when looking at inheritance?

Halliabaloo · 24/08/2021 18:26

Hello BillandBen. To have reached the approx figure given I’m referring to multiple children being cared for for well over a decade, not a bit of helping someone get on their feet after a relationship breakdown.

If you are part of a long term plan for your daughter and grandchildren then maybe you could consider the fairness of it. I also trust you are not a snide bitch to your son’s wife, that goes a long way, too.

Halliabaloo · 24/08/2021 18:27

It’s referring to treating children fairly in a way that has had a profound effect on their life chances.

Grinch48 · 24/08/2021 18:37

My parents will was set up so that when one of them passed away their half of the property was left in trust to my sister & I with my father having the right to stay in the half
When he went into a nursing home they could only assess him on his half of the house not the other half that was my mothers
Sadly he was only in the home for a few weeks before he passed away and he was within the 12 week period of grace where he didn’t have to pay anything
So eventually when everything is sorted out my sister & I will get the house
But even if he had stayed in the care home if the house was sold for his care he would only be able to use his half of the house - SS couldn’t touch the other half

Bouledeneige · 24/08/2021 22:22

Yes it's unfair OP and unwise. And without the change to their will your DB could be expecting a share of the house when they die. It never works well if parents treat their offspring unequally.

There is a lot of misinformation on this thread - which has been correctly rectified. People are very badly advised pursuing deprivation of assets ( local authorities will spot that a mile off) and thinking the 7 year rule applies to houses. And the Inheritance Tax Threshold is higher than people seem to realise (thanks to the Tories).

But the other major misconception people have is about how long they will live and what they will need as they age. Average life expectancy is 82 and although only around 10 percent of people will need to go into a care home, many more will need to have additional funds to live on to supplement pensions and pay for adaptations and care at home. So really it's far wiser the keep their savings and rely on leaving what is left equally to their offspring.

GingerAndTheBiscuits · 24/08/2021 22:33

@cabingirl I would be inclined to think the local authority could only take account of 50% of the property given that is his asset but if you have any doubt I would strongly recommend getting legal advice because any mistakes could be costly.

GnomeDePlume · 25/08/2021 07:55

Having had DMiL live out her last few years in a care home we will not be hiding assets away. Because DMiL had some assets DH and his brothers were able to find a suitable home for her not simply one which the council would pay for. Having some money to throw at the problem brings choice.