How to handle FILs comment?

[stilling0]

Me and fiance have a 7 year old together.

Fiance's father was emotionally abusive towards him when he was growing up, but his dad apologised and we let him have a relationship with DS.

DS goes to MIL and FIL often, yesterday he went there, and when fiancè picked him up. He was quiet. He eventually told us that FIL told him he can't have his nails coloured in with pen as it's for ‘girls’. Fiancè confronted him and he said that DS will turn out to be gay if we let him

MIL then stuck up for FIL and told fiancè to stop overreacting!

Fiancè has said he doesn't want FIL anywhere near DS, which won't be possible as he'll be there whenever he sees MIL, and fiancè doesn't mind MIL seeing him/ taking him places.

What do we do?

I wouldn’t be seeing either of them. If he really wants MIL to be involved, which I wouldn’t, she can come to yours and see DS then.

I’d have nothing to do with emotional abusers or idiots who think you can catch gay from nail varnish. Dangerous bigoted stupidity.

Well he either sticks to his word and accepts that MIL will miss out or he continues to let FIL see DS.

Realistically, in this circumstance, she's as bad as him.

Why do you think it won't be possible for him not to see your DS? Your job is to make it possible.

Comments like this are ridiculous, annoying and pathetic. However, I'm not sure that it needs to be complete No Contact as a result. Frankly, we've had the odd thing from my parents or ILs and we've always found it quite easy to say to the DC, "Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought." And feel free for DC to see you telling ILs that their attitudes are ridiculous.

I agree you can explain stupid ideas but they are actually not letting him do something harmless that he wants, because of their incredibly flawed logic.

The insistence of rigid gender roles in tiny children enrages me so much.

@TiredButDancing

Comments like this are ridiculous, annoying and pathetic. However, I'm not sure that it needs to be complete No Contact as a result. Frankly, we've had the odd thing from my parents or ILs and we've always found it quite easy to say to the DC, "Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought." And feel free for DC to see you telling ILs that their attitudes are ridiculous.

To clarify, extremely unpleasant views shouldn't be accommodated, but I do think there's value in letting your DC see how you respond to such things. I know for a fact that DS best friend is one of those children who uses terms like, "you're gay" as an insult at school (because DS is always telling him off) but I suspect that's because his parents have just avoided any conversations about this ever so he's never learnt appropriate responses.

Stop sending your kid there, problem solved

I'd maybe mention to FIL that I found it incredibly interesting that he states it's only the colour of FIL's nails making him not fancy men instead of women. Lucky for MIL he was so careful not to get any pen on them at any time in his life!

I'd be painting his nails and toe nails next time and make sure he isn't left alone so you can deal with comments directly. My eldest boy has grown out of it now but youngest still asks when I'm doing mine.

In itself it’s not a nc issue but if he is homophobic, which I assume he is, then I’d likely distance myself and my child. I’d not leave him there alone.

Do you realise your dad belongs to a different generation? While I understand your viewpoint, can you not have a peaceful discussion with him explaining things nicely?

Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought.

Please don;t say this - don;t keep perpetuating the myth that old people are homophobes/racists or whatever.
I'm in my 60's I have never been homophobic, my parents were born in the 1920's they were never homophobic.

It's not an 'old person' thing, it's an ignorant stupid thing.

By all means tell your children that some people have strange ideas and that those ideas are based on lack of knowledge and general unpleasantness, but don't tell them that this is how old people thin because it isn't true and as well as being ageist, it minimises bigotry by citing age as a excuse when it isn't.

On your point OP - I would tell FIL that he keeps his unpleasant and ridiculous opinions to himself or he won't be seeing your child. I doubt you'll be able to change his views - you can't argue with stupid, but you can tell him you won't tolerate such things being said around your child.

FIL sounds a bit pathetic and nasty. Add that to a history of abuse and nope I wouldn’t be leaving my DS there.

@AmyDudley

Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought.

Please don;t say this - don;t keep perpetuating the myth that old people are homophobes/racists or whatever.
I'm in my 60's I have never been homophobic, my parents were born in the 1920's they were never homophobic.

It's not an 'old person' thing, it's an ignorant stupid thing.

By all means tell your children that some people have strange ideas and that those ideas are based on lack of knowledge and general unpleasantness, but don't tell them that this is how old people thin because it isn't true and as well as being ageist, it minimises bigotry by citing age as a excuse when it isn't.

On your point OP - I would tell FIL that he keeps his unpleasant and ridiculous opinions to himself or he won't be seeing your child. I doubt you'll be able to change his views - you can't argue with stupid, but you can tell him you won't tolerate such things being said around your child.

Well, I take your point, but my children's grandparents are all in their 80s except MIL and she's 79 !

I do see your point that not all old people will feel the same, of course, but there often is a generational "norm". Doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be challenged.

I agree with your fiancé.
He not only made a homophobic comment, it was a comment aimed to belittle your son and what if it subsequently turns out your son is gay…what message does he take from that.

Alongside the history of abuse to your fiancé and the fact they haven’t accepted what they said was wrong it’s really not making them look like they’re suitable to look after your son anyway/

If your son has experienced abuse from this person as a child I would follow his lead as he will be more than aware of how it effects a child.

Also if you let this pass there I would have thought there will be other comments in the future.

MIL can see DS without FIL - she just comes to yours or you see her elsewhere.

I can't see the problem.

Reminds me of my father in law calling my son a poof when he was about 7. I’ve never forgiven him.

Op have you explained the comment to your son?

In your shoes I’d explain about homophobia and how silly it is that some people say unkind things. Maybe explain that when grandad grew up everyone expected boys and girls to wear certain clothes, but how that’s changed now but grandad has still got old and unkind ways of thinking.

I’d focus on how sad it is that grandfather hasn’t learnt to be accepting and kind and how lucky you are that you are able to accept people and be kind to them….so he knows the comment shows a lacking in his grandfather and not in him!

What do we do? You let your OH lead, he kows what his dad is like and how much/little his mum will do to ameloriate his actions.

Your real problem is that you, and possibly OH, know FIL is a wretched excuse of a man, but you seem to think MIL is worthy of your respect. Is she?

Did she stop FIL when he was emotionally abusive to his own son? No!

She certainly wasn't when he emotionally abused his grandson?

It wouldn't be an over reaction to remove both of them from your son's life completely or in part.

I don't imagine your son will miss them once he no longer has to put up with such crappy comments.

On its own I think that it would be strike one and close monitoring but with the history of e.a with dh I would be supervising contact at the least.

If ds asks then you need to make it clear this is not his fault but the fault if his grandfather.

Tell DS in front of FIL that he can have what he wants on his nails and that there’s no such thing as ‘for girls’ or boys.

That way you don’t have to engage in a row that is very unlikely to change FIL’s mind. Or would there be consequences? Him being emotionally abusive I guess that is a distinct possibility.

Good luck with him. It sounds hard

Do you rely on MIL for childcare?

Please stop sacrificing your ds to appease an abusive man.

I think all this aggression is not helping. Your finance 'confronted' him. If someone confronts someone the person being confronted tends to either be taken back surprised and on the back foot or they leap to defend themselves. Neither is helpful to an adult conversation.
I would wait until things calm down and then offer to have a mature chat and see if things can be worked out. If not, than you have your answer but all this knee jerk stuff is not good for your DS. He will realise that telling you something triggered a family fall out and now he is not allowed to see his grandparents. Maybe he is OK about this. Maybe he is not. But what you are risking is next time you push him for an answer he won't give it.
The comments about nail colour were ignorent and dated - but I think with this sort of thing education is the next step not no contact.

@TiredButDancing

Comments like this are ridiculous, annoying and pathetic. However, I'm not sure that it needs to be complete No Contact as a result. Frankly, we've had the odd thing from my parents or ILs and we've always found it quite easy to say to the DC, "Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought." And feel free for DC to see you telling ILs that their attitudes are ridiculous.

Haven't read the full thread but this is such good advice in my opinion. So much better than holding furious grudges. I've been in a similar position and trying to find a way to remain in contact with PIL despite hurtful (and plain stupid and wrong) comments. Thanks for this balanced view TiredButDancing.