How to handle FILs comment?

[stilling0]

Me and fiance have a 7 year old together.

Fiance's father was emotionally abusive towards him when he was growing up, but his dad apologised and we let him have a relationship with DS.

DS goes to MIL and FIL often, yesterday he went there, and when fiancè picked him up. He was quiet. He eventually told us that FIL told him he can't have his nails coloured in with pen as it's for ‘girls’. Fiancè confronted him and he said that DS will turn out to be gay if we let him

MIL then stuck up for FIL and told fiancè to stop overreacting!

Fiancè has said he doesn't want FIL anywhere near DS, which won't be possible as he'll be there whenever he sees MIL, and fiancè doesn't mind MIL seeing him/ taking him places.

What do we do?

In it's own, I think this is an over reaction to go no contact. Unfortunately lots and lots of people have rigid gener role expectations, I've heard stuff from nursery, teachers, friends and family that I'm uncomfortable with. Even if your son wanted to buy some kids nail varnish, no doubt it would be under the 'girls' section of a shop. You can't just go no contact with everyone who's views you disagree with. Although I think these views are ultimately harmful, so many people hold them that no matter how much you tell him otherwise and try and protect him from bigoted outdated views, your son will likely come back from pre school or school one day and say 'nail varnish / long hair / dresses are for girls'. The homophobic comment is awful but again I think it might be better to confront it and explain to your son why you think its wrong.

Having said all that, there is obviously a huge backstory here and it must be hard for your husband to have any kind of contact with someone who was abusive, and his mum who enabled the abusive, and if this is the straw that broke the camels back then that's completely understandable and it might be best to stay away from him as he sounds like a nasty person so is unlikely to bring anything positive to your childs life long term. Only you and your husband know if having contact with his dad is worth it to have a relationship with his mum.

@TiredButDancing

Comments like this are ridiculous, annoying and pathetic. However, I'm not sure that it needs to be complete No Contact as a result. Frankly, we've had the odd thing from my parents or ILs and we've always found it quite easy to say to the DC, "Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought." And feel free for DC to see you telling ILs that their attitudes are ridiculous.

As a one-off, I probably wouldn’t be ‘going NC’ either - but the OP mentions a long history of emotional abuse. Perhaps this incident is a warning sign for her husband.

Haven't read the full thread

Really? It was literally one page long when you posted.

I'd respect my partner's view and go with what he wanted.

My feeling on it is - Clearly it's not about this single comment. This comment has simply brought back a childhood filled with emotional abuse and he's realised that his father will start on his child and he will not allow his father to treat his child the way he treated him.

Surely you disagree on all sorts of things? Just tell your son you think he’s wrong.

It's obviously not about one single comment and homophobia is not acceptable whatever the age.

Do you rely on MIL for childcare?

If MIL wants to see her GC (and her son), she can come to your place, without FIL. Simple.

@TiredButDancing

Comments like this are ridiculous, annoying and pathetic. However, I'm not sure that it needs to be complete No Contact as a result. Frankly, we've had the odd thing from my parents or ILs and we've always found it quite easy to say to the DC, "Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought." And feel free for DC to see you telling ILs that their attitudes are ridiculous.

This is the sort of thing I used to do with my mother. “Grandma does think some really strange things. We know that bla bla bla”. And I’d say it in front of her.

This sort of crap gives you an excellent opportunity to reinforce family values. Obviously if it happens all the time then that is a separate issue. I would be monitoring the interaction.

@AmyDudley

Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought.

Please don;t say this - don;t keep perpetuating the myth that old people are homophobes/racists or whatever.
I'm in my 60's I have never been homophobic, my parents were born in the 1920's they were never homophobic.

It's not an 'old person' thing, it's an ignorant stupid thing.

By all means tell your children that some people have strange ideas and that those ideas are based on lack of knowledge and general unpleasantness, but don't tell them that this is how old people thin because it isn't true and as well as being ageist, it minimises bigotry by citing age as a excuse when it isn't.

On your point OP - I would tell FIL that he keeps his unpleasant and ridiculous opinions to himself or he won't be seeing your child. I doubt you'll be able to change his views - you can't argue with stupid, but you can tell him you won't tolerate such things being said around your child.

yup, same here. You might just as well say "all teenagers are junkies" "all council estates are urban jungles" and so on. Its factually innaccurate and just plain rude.

What a ridiculous overreaction to stop DS seeing him. No, I don't condone his words - not at all. However it was possibly said in jest AND most importantly, FIL is of an older generation. They were raised with these beliefs being common across society. And whilst yes, he absolutely shouldn't say things like that to children, certainly not..... I think after a lifetime of following societal norms, it's going to occasionally happen - NOT EXCUSING IT! Merely explaining what MAY be the case.
All that needed to happen was a very stern word or warning and FIL left in no doubt that it's not acceptable.

Honestly, all the people egging OP on to cement the wedge between her DP & his DF is appalling behaviour. These are people's real lives, not a soap opera.....!!!!

And no, I am NOT saying that ALL older people are Homophobic, of course not!! But that he is of a generation where it WAS a common preconception!!

I think it's okay to say that 'Gma and dad grew up in a time when things were different and boys weren't allowed to do these things. But they'll realise one day that people are allowed to do those things now'.

That's very different from the ageist 'old people think this way'.

The thing is with people, say, in their 70s and 80s is that they DID grow up with this being a usual attitude. And it depends a lot on what their life has been like since, and the influences they've had in their lives, as to whether they've grown into newer and better attitudes.

I'm 65 so I can remember when people said this stuff. But I've been lucky enough to read a lot, have people around me to learn from, and been adaptable enough to grow. And that's not a boast in any way. We all have different opportunities (or the lack of them), and it's harder for some.

Ugh. Gma and Gdad. Not dad.

@Boredmotherofone

What a ridiculous overreaction to stop DS seeing him. No, I don't condone his words - not at all. However it was possibly said in jest AND most importantly, FIL is of an older generation. They were raised with these beliefs being common across society. And whilst yes, he absolutely shouldn't say things like that to children, certainly not..... I think after a lifetime of following societal norms, it's going to occasionally happen - NOT EXCUSING IT! Merely explaining what MAY be the case. All that needed to happen was a very stern word or warning and FIL left in no doubt that it's not acceptable.

Honestly, all the people egging OP on to cement the wedge between her DP & his DF is appalling behaviour. These are people's real lives, not a soap opera.....!!!!

Homopbobia is never justified.

Just stop taking your DS there.

As a survivor of EA my tuppenceworth is this:

It doesn't actually matter WHAT he said. What matters is how it made you DS FEEL.

EA is very insidious, hard to recognise unless you have experienced it and can lead to a lifetime of shameful feelings. I suspect your DH understands this.

I wouldn't leave him with them unattended.

• fiancé sorry

@AmyDudley

Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought.

Please don;t say this - don;t keep perpetuating the myth that old people are homophobes/racists or whatever.
I'm in my 60's I have never been homophobic, my parents were born in the 1920's they were never homophobic.

It's not an 'old person' thing, it's an ignorant stupid thing.

By all means tell your children that some people have strange ideas and that those ideas are based on lack of knowledge and general unpleasantness, but don't tell them that this is how old people thin because it isn't true and as well as being ageist, it minimises bigotry by citing age as a excuse when it isn't.

On your point OP - I would tell FIL that he keeps his unpleasant and ridiculous opinions to himself or he won't be seeing your child. I doubt you'll be able to change his views - you can't argue with stupid, but you can tell him you won't tolerate such things being said around your child.

I quite agree! Being of an older generation is definitely not synonymous with being a bigot or a homophobe and it's not fair to suggest to a child that the views of all "old people" are "wrong" simply because they are old and grew up in a different era when the prevailing attitudes were different.

Many older people are more than capable of moving with the times.

By all means tell your children that some people have strange ideas and that those ideas are based on lack of knowledge and general unpleasantness, but don't tell them that this is how old people thin because it isn't true and as well as being ageist, it minimises bigotry by citing age as a excuse when it isn't

Totally agree with this. You can make it clear to your son that his grandparents are wrong without making it about their age.

@tobedtoMNandfart

As a survivor of EA my tuppenceworth is this:

It doesn't actually matter WHAT he said. What matters is how it made you DS FEEL.

EA is very insidious, hard to recognise unless you have experienced it and can lead to a lifetime of shameful feelings. I suspect your DH understands this.

I wouldn't leave him with them unattended.

This is a great point. That fact is it wasn’t just a outdated/homophobic comment. It was comment designed to make your child feel stupid about something they were doing.

Honestly, all the people egging OP on to cement the wedge between her DP & his DF is appalling behaviour. These are people's real lives, not a soap opera.....!!!!

This man abused the OP's fiance throughout his childhood and is now starting on their child and the fiance wants to cut contact. The OP is under no obligation to defend an abusive homophobe and I'm not sure why you would suggest it's her place to try and smooth things over when none of them appear to want that.

What @DysmalRadius said, with bells on! 🔔🔔🔔

all this knee jerk stuff is not good for your DS

It's not knee jerk- the PP's fiance had endured a lifetime of abuse from his father.

I would have laughed and said well if he is gay he is gay.

My in laws have some very outdated views. I explain to mine that everyone is allowed to have an opinion but we dont have to agree, we each make our own decisions.

@TiredButDancing

Comments like this are ridiculous, annoying and pathetic. However, I'm not sure that it needs to be complete No Contact as a result. Frankly, we've had the odd thing from my parents or ILs and we've always found it quite easy to say to the DC, "Granny/Grandpa are old so they have some funny ideas. They're wrong, but when they were young that's how people thought." And feel free for DC to see you telling ILs that their attitudes are ridiculous.

the child is seven - how old are the grandparents - they're unlikely to be that bloody old I'm 60, and don't know anyone of my age who'd say something that ignorant.