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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

996 replies

54321nought · 19/08/2021 23:40

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

OP posts:
lannistunut · 23/08/2021 07:53

The are responsible stopping people getting to work when the intention is to cause disruption.
why not just disrupt MP’s it’s not quite as exciting though is it

Disrupting MPs would not be as... disruptive. Would anyone care if MPs could not get to the HoC for a day?

Hekatestorch · 23/08/2021 08:11

@lannistunut

I am put off by their complete lack of understanding or care of people who are poor You have projected this on to them.

Ultimately they are not responsible for all ills in the world, they are aiming to raise awareness of the climate emergency.

They are when they are the ones stopping these people getting to work or medical appointments and making their lives worse.

Yes they are responsible for that.

Hekatestorch · 23/08/2021 08:13

@lannistunut

The are responsible stopping people getting to work when the intention is to cause disruption. why not just disrupt MP’s it’s not quite as exciting though is it

Disrupting MPs would not be as... disruptive. Would anyone care if MPs could not get to the HoC for a day?

So the working poor and people needing to access medical care are acceptable collateral damage, for you and XR.

That's all people have been saying. And that we don't agree with it. In my opinion, it's disgusting.

OhWhyNot · 23/08/2021 08:15

The have disrupted Parliament before

This isn’t quite so exciting through is it

Xenia · 23/08/2021 08:19

If you believe in a cause then almost anything is justifiable to those who believe they are saving the planet or serving God or whatever it might be. I don't agree with them but I can understand the point of view.

However if they want the public on their side then they need to find ways that do not annoy ordinary people otherwise they will damage their cause.

lannistunut · 23/08/2021 08:24

@Hekatestorch

Ultimately you either live in a democracy or you live in a totalitarian state. Disruption has always been a feature of protest. The luddites stopped people earning, mill strikes stopped people earning, suffragettes stopped people earning. Not everyone agreed with strikes or action, whenever and for whatever reason they happened.

I get that you consider them wrong, but they are free to do what they are doing and if they do something illegal they will be arrested and charged.

I don't accept this personally at all So the working poor and people needing to access medical care are acceptable collateral damage, for you as I am not personally involved.

Hekatestorch · 23/08/2021 08:38

[quote lannistunut]@Hekatestorch

Ultimately you either live in a democracy or you live in a totalitarian state. Disruption has always been a feature of protest. The luddites stopped people earning, mill strikes stopped people earning, suffragettes stopped people earning. Not everyone agreed with strikes or action, whenever and for whatever reason they happened.

I get that you consider them wrong, but they are free to do what they are doing and if they do something illegal they will be arrested and charged.

I don't accept this personally at all So the working poor and people needing to access medical care are acceptable collateral damage, for you as I am not personally involved.[/quote]
Yes and all I am doing is disagreeing. Have I told anyone not to go? Or taking steps to shut then down? No.

And you should accept it personally, because you feel the collateral damage to the worst off in society, is acceptable. Wether you attend or not. Actively support or not. You believe its acceptable.

There's not much anyone can do if you don't like that. I don't think it's acceptable. They don't have to do it. They have other options available. As I suggested before.

They choose to, because they don't see a problem with it. I have a problem with that attitude.

rainbowmash · 23/08/2021 08:46

I'm a big supporter of environmental causes (I went veggie, I refuse to buy a car, the real deal).

However, I know a bunch of people in XR and it's shady as hell. Operates in a very cult-like way. Once you get to the "upper levels", they start telling you that The End Of Humanity Is Imminent (like, next week kind of imminent) and that followers need to quit their jobs, leave their families, and join their permaculture communes to shelter from Armageddon.

Try meat-free, reduce your carbon, avoid XR.

Andante57 · 23/08/2021 09:11

Really this argument is nonsense

Iannistunut ok but the op has repeatedly said that XR is active in China and you say XR is only concerned with British issues.
Which is it?

Darker · 23/08/2021 09:45

XR is global.

lannistunut · 23/08/2021 09:46

@Andante57

Really this argument is nonsense

Iannistunut ok but the op has repeatedly said that XR is active in China and you say XR is only concerned with British issues.
Which is it?

I personally only have any real knowledge of XR in the UK, so I must defer on that.
Farevalah · 23/08/2021 09:52

I kind of understand the aims of XR, however I think it's aimed at inconveniencing the wrong people. Most people's primary concerns are earning enough money to keep a roof over their head, feeding their family, etc.
Most pollution, carbon etc is from large businesses not the ordinary person on the street so target them instead.
Also the Royals with the queen getting an exemption from the environmental laws in Scotland, think it was for green energy - hardly setting a good example is it?

lannistunut · 23/08/2021 09:53

Also the Royals with the queen getting an exemption from the environmental laws in Scotland, think it was for green energy - hardly setting a good example is it? This was infuriating, really really infuriating.

BelleOfTheProvince · 23/08/2021 09:57

What I noticed about their aims and objectives is they lack detail.
That’s why rapid, transformative changes are called for to prevent climate breakdown and create the conditions for people to thrive together.

How members do you think you would lose op, if they knew one of these changes was to overhaul our diets to a plant based one(obviously I am talking about rich western countries here and not a handful of innuuits who fish with rods).

Judging by ops willingness to defend eating chicken I'm guessing a lot of them.

@rainbowmash is the first person I have seen on this thread do something concrete for climate change. Well done.

Farevalah · 23/08/2021 09:59

Yes she was the only person in Scotland for whom an exemption was granted. Very annoying when a few days later Charlie was spouting out about the environment. Classic do as I say, not as I do.

Darker · 23/08/2021 10:13

What I’m finding infuriating is the reductive arguments which are basically an attack on the OP as if she represents XR. She’s one person with the right to express her views.

XR do focus on specific things - fossil fuel for example. They have also attacked media to hold them to account on telling the truth. They don’t target ordinary people and there does not appear to me to be any intent of causing harm to those people, though their actions inevitably do inevitably impact on some people who are not the target.

The problem is that other methods don’t work. Say everyone here stops flying. Great. But if that hits bookings, airlines will just lower their prices and fly anyway.

Look at tobacco. It’s still perfectly legal to buy and consume this despite knowing the harms, because governments don’t want to lose revenue or the votes of the smokers or to be seen to threaten people’s freedoms

lannistunut · 23/08/2021 10:18

governments don’t want to lose revenue or the votes of the smokers or to be seen to threaten people’s freedoms we are moving into a complicated phase for 'freedoms', due to the heavy cost of ignoring climate change.

Darker · 23/08/2021 10:25

we are moving into a complicated phase for 'freedoms', due to the heavy cost of ignoring climate change

Yes we’ve had a tiny glimpse of that with Covid.

Lostmarbles2021 · 23/08/2021 10:28

“Last week the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change published their latest report. Eight years in the making, involving hundreds of experts, and signed off by nearly 200 governments, it represents the global consensus on the science of climate change.”

“Its basic conclusion: things will inevitably get worse. Drastic action is urgently required to ensure things don’t get catastrophically worse.”

This is the situation. Governments are doing too little. Women had to blow things up and throw themselves under horses to win the vote. Sometimes, when governments aren’t doing what is right for the people, despite the clear evidence and public pressure, then direct and shocking action is the only way.

If that stops a few people getting to work, causes disruption, creates some mess in a nice park. Tough luck. This is a GLOBAL EMERGENCY and people are already dying.

Nit picking about some hypocrisy in ER arguments or behaviours is a waste of energy. You will, of course find them, but so what? The science is clear. Climate chaos is already happening and future generations are going to experience hardship the likes of which we can barely imagine. We have an absolute duty to do our best to mitigate that to the best of our ability and we are not. So those that understand and feel passionately about it are doing their best to pressure governments into taking the required action.

Good for them. Their conscience is clear.

Keep calling them names if you like but it doesn’t change the reality that they are doing this for very good reason. You might not like what they are doing but history looks back favourably on those that put themselves out like this for a just and right cause.

None of us can say we live 100% according to our values. We all engage in hypocrisy in one form or another. None of us are perfect. No organisation is perfect. At least they are doing something.

Xenia · 23/08/2021 10:28

I would rather be more free and have more risk including risk of humans dying off a bit sooner and more risk of dying of covid.

Darker · 23/08/2021 10:31

I would rather be more free and have more risk including risk of humans dying off a bit sooner and more risk of dying of covid

Do the people who die sooner get a choice? Or is your freedom worth their ‘sacrifice’.

Darker · 23/08/2021 10:37

Well said LostMarbles.

Shade17 · 23/08/2021 10:38

Good for them. Their conscience is clear.

Fuck them! They’re scum!

Lostmarbles2021 · 23/08/2021 11:18

Shade17

Thanks for that eloquent and well thought through contribution to the discussion. Smile

Andante57 · 23/08/2021 11:42

I personally only have any real knowledge of XR in the UK, so I must defer on that

Iannistunut so why say my argument is ‘nonsense’ when you agree you know nothing about XR’s ‘global’ influence?
Actually, I have asked for evidence for its activities in China and I think I’m going to be waiting a very long time for an answer…….

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