to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

[54321nought]

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

The history books will judge them as similar to the suffragettes etc. We are heading for extinction and doing next to nothing about it

If the human race is going extinct then there won’t be anyone around to read, or indeed write, the history books.

Which is why non of the people from the UK protested would try it there. They wouldn't dare, do it where their privilege doesn't protect them

Exactly. Actually I’d be full of admiration for any that did have the guts to protest in China but it won’t be happening.

@Andante57

Which is why non of the people from the UK protested would try it there. They wouldn't dare, do it where their privilege doesn't protect them

Exactly. Actually I’d be full of admiration for any that did have the guts to protest in China but it won’t be happening.

ER is international. It is active in China.

But much of the pollution from China is actually our pollution that we outsource to China, so the source of the problem is actually here

Show of hands who is giving up their cars after reading this thread?! I thought so...you gotta have it.

Cars are a necessary evil. Off the top of my head:

Vital for people with mobility issues
The vulnerable to get to chemo etc.
Those that live in rural areas.

And another example of xr making demands they don't really want followed through. Much more sensible to campaign for research into environmentally friendly cars and better public transport all round.

But I honestly don't think they actually know what they are advocating for: their aims are so vague.

But yeah, I have no faith in them making the big changes needed when they can't even give up megafarmed chickens.

@ChaneySays

Not read the thread but hate wankers who prevent people getting to work and earning a living. I doubt it wins many people to their cause.

Actually, their methods are based on evidence of what has worked in the past. Peaceful disruption is the most effective way of causing change.

ER is international. It is active in China.

Again, can you show some recent activity?

Well it obviously backfired for Extinction Rebellion spectacularly

The vast majority of people haven’t talked about what they were protesting about they have talked about the unnecessary disruption they caused to many people

They need to change their tactics

Actually, their methods are based on evidence of what has worked in the past. Peaceful disruption is the most effective way of causing change.

And who is their collateral damage?

@Andante57

Which is why non of the people from the UK protested would try it there. They wouldn't dare, do it where their privilege doesn't protect them

Exactly. Actually I’d be full of admiration for any that did have the guts to protest in China but it won’t be happening.

That would be stupid though, UK protests are about UK actions.

Of course being in a democracy allows them to protest, that's a good thing.

Really this argument is nonsense.

@OhWhyNot

Well it obviously backfired for Extinction Rebellion spectacularly

The vast majority of people haven’t talked about what they were protesting about they have talked about the unnecessary disruption they caused to many people

They need to change their tactics

This is precisely what was said about the suffragettes too.

Really this argument is nonsense

Its really not in the context of this thread and OPS claims about XR.

This is precisely what was said about the suffragettes too.

The suffragettes did not win the vote based on 'peaceful disruption' only. They did change their tactics. Several times. They aren't anything like the suffragettes.

What’s the collateral damage of not doing anything?

People complaining they haven’t achieved anything might reflect that everyone knows about them and there are strong feelings. That includes shareholders of the big companies that are being targeted, people in MPs constituencies, policy makers of all kinds. They might not agree with XR but they have heard of them and have heard of the climate emergency.

Many years of beautifully filmed David Attenborough films led to complacency about the planet… it all looks fine. We need to wake up. Even David Attenborough agreed he hadn’t held industry to account.

The suffragettes were criticised for disrupting ordinary people's lives is my point, and it isn't just they changed tactics, different groups did different things, as with the environmental movement currently.

What’s the collateral damage of not doing anything?

But you can't answer who XRs collateral damage is?

No one said we should not do anything. This thread is about XR and people's feelings towards them.

XR are actively, seriously harming people. People who need more support not their lives making harder.

The suffragettes were criticised for disrupting ordinary people's lives is my point, and it isn't just they changed tactics, different groups did different things, as with the environmental movement currently.

2 groups causing disruption are not equals.

XR are just causing disruption with not real aim. Suffragettes didn't just say 'oh just here to bring you attention to this'

Again, look at the demographic of the people involved. The vast majority of XR would pack themselves up and head home, if they thought their lives maybe at risk. Or if they were actually expected to come up with a solution. Or even do anything above camp out for a few days.

People trying to make XR to be modern day Suffragettes is laughable. Whoever compared them to people fighting for the end of slavery, are just ridiculous and offensive.

And yes, the Suffragettes, did change tactics.

No one is ever going to compare the privileged XR to the Suffragettes. Sorry.

How long has green peace being going? No one compares them either. This is the same sort of think Trump supporters used to try and make themselves out to be the heroes of our time.

XR do have clear aims. Look at their website.

@Hekatestorch XR have aims, it seems you don't know much about them.

It is your right to disagree with them, but the disruption is intentional.

By disrupting they make people discuss them.

@Darker

XR do have clear aims. Look at their website.

They have a few endgame targets. But no real idea how to get there. Though their 'demands' (which is laughable in itself) do have more detail than I expected.

However, we are back to the beginning. People won't listen to them, because of their actions. Because of the harm they are causing to everyday people. If they got their shit together, they would have far more support.

I am not supportive of XR. I am not saying I never will be, but while they are acting in the manner they are, no I won't.

When an issue is important to me, it does not mean I will align myself with any group out there.

If XR want people to listen, really listen. They need to stop harming people who actually need more support. They need to stop acting like a bunch of entitled twits and get their act together.

The vast majority of XR protestors, make XR look stupid. They don't attract support. They damage the people the government isn't bothered about either, so that doesn't inspire the government to act.

Having 'demands' and aims are not the same thing. The citizens assembly? They don't even listen to citizens now. So it's a bit rich to say, they will help solve the problem.

@Hekatestorch maybe you should join and take them over, show them the right path. People always claim to know better but funnily enough never do anything.

[quote lannistunut]@Hekatestorch XR have aims, it seems you don't know much about them.

It is your right to disagree with them, but the disruption is intentional.

By disrupting they make people discuss them.[/quote]
You are right. I don't know the detail. Why would I?

I have no interest in them. Most people don't know the detail, even people at protests.

I know the disruption is intentional. Who is there collateral damage? Its foul.

They are harming people, so they can be 'discussed'? What's the point?

People would be better discussing the actual issues. But as soon as XR is mentioned, people just think they are a bunch of twats that don't achieve anything and people lose interest.

But as long as people are talking about them, positively or negatively, they can pretend their are this generations heroes, right? They have their priorities wrong.

Good for them.

You are right. I don't know the detail. Why would I?

Weird to spend ages arguing about something you know nothing about.

If trying to effect political change, there are three types of people: those already in agreement, those who can be persuaded, those who are never going to come over so no point talking to.

Sounds like you have decided you are in group three, so you are not who they are trying to talk to.

@lannistunut

You are right. I don't know the detail. Why would I?

Weird to spend ages arguing about something you know nothing about.

If trying to effect political change, there are three types of people: those already in agreement, those who can be persuaded, those who are never going to come over so no point talking to.

Sounds like you have decided you are in group three, so you are not who they are trying to talk to.

No actually, as I said, I would be open to supporting them.

If they did things like (as well as crowd funding for legal fees) crowd fund or set up a foundation to help the people, who need to get to work to pay their basic bills and are stopped by XR.

Completely denounce any of their protestors blocking ambulances or access to medical facilities.

Make sure they don't leave their shit behind, make sure they provide the facilities they need to they aren't damaging the environment.

And as for your comment about maybe I should lead them? I thought they had many knowledgeable professionals supporting them? Why would they need me?

I don't know XR in detail because like most people, I am put off by their complete lack of understanding or care of people who are poor. Of people who need medical attention. Are completely unaware of their own action and impact on the people who are ignored by the governement.

Why would I throughly research them? No matter how well put together they were, I couldn't support them with the damage they are doing to people now.

I am put off by their complete lack of understanding or care of people who are poor You have projected this on to them.

Ultimately they are not responsible for all ills in the world, they are aiming to raise awareness of the climate emergency.

I'll be there with the whole family.

Climate breakdown is our no1 problem and sadly we are not doing nearly enough to mitigate the worst effects and adapt to the that have already been triggered.

XR keep the spotlight on climate breakdown which is crucial to teal political action. That's why we'll be there.

The are responsible stopping people getting to work when the intention is to cause disruption.

I have heard their spokespersons often on the radio they are consistently pulled up on their facts.

Again why not just disrupt MP’s it’s not quite as exciting though is it