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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

996 replies

54321nought · 19/08/2021 23:40

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

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Darker · 20/08/2021 16:47

Thing is that battery farming is cruel and horrible but it’s a separate issue from Climate change. And eating meat is also not straightforward.

When we are looking at feeding all the humans on the planet there are some places where sheep farming or similar is the optimum use of that land. Equally some crops are harmful, especially if you cut good forest down to grow it.

Polkadots2021 · 20/08/2021 16:52

@54321nought

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

Everyone has their own opinions but I'm really behind them. We're barrelling toward an irreversible environmental crisis that will end up causing historic, unprecedented damage to the earth and Ext Rebellion are standing up to protest against it.
derxa · 20/08/2021 17:04

I said eating chicken is better for the environment than eating beef, lamb or fish You're wrong

burritofan · 20/08/2021 17:08

And Greta is giving scowling teen rage vibes.
Haven’t the next generation got a right to be bloody raging at all our carry on and the mess they’re inheriting?

PlanDeRaccordement · 20/08/2021 17:12

@Darker

Thing is that battery farming is cruel and horrible but it’s a separate issue from Climate change. And eating meat is also not straightforward.

When we are looking at feeding all the humans on the planet there are some places where sheep farming or similar is the optimum use of that land. Equally some crops are harmful, especially if you cut good forest down to grow it.

Good post. Very true.
BelleOfTheProvince · 20/08/2021 17:15

@Darker

Thing is that battery farming is cruel and horrible but it’s a separate issue from Climate change. And eating meat is also not straightforward.

When we are looking at feeding all the humans on the planet there are some places where sheep farming or similar is the optimum use of that land. Equally some crops are harmful, especially if you cut good forest down to grow it.

Well there's scientific evidence and it is generally accepted that reducing your meat is the best way to make an individual environmental effort.

So you're fine to ignore that with arguments of 'nuance'. Which can mostly be argued against if you care to look into it by the way.
But don't then get mad if the government ignores scientific evidence due to nuance.

And to be honest I think there's a lot more nuance to running the country than forgoing KFC.

BelleOfTheProvince · 20/08/2021 17:17

By the way trees in the rainforest are cut down for soya for animals, not for the very few people who eat vegetarian or vegan diets. Just so you know.
It's simple maths. Takes a lot of food to feed an animal for long enough for it to be an 'eatable size'.

Confiscatedpopit · 20/08/2021 17:19

Oh god, the whole coronavirus panic must be calming down if people are jumping on this again.

PlanDeRaccordement · 20/08/2021 17:20

@BelleOfTheProvince

By the way trees in the rainforest are cut down for soya for animals, not for the very few people who eat vegetarian or vegan diets. Just so you know. It's simple maths. Takes a lot of food to feed an animal for long enough for it to be an 'eatable size'.
Not the palm oil plantations......nice how you conveniently omitted that.
Darker · 20/08/2021 17:24

Belle I accept that a meat rich diet is bad for the environment. I just think that people (including me) tend to mix up different ethical issues.

HeyDemonsItsYaGirl · 20/08/2021 17:27

ReggaetonLente You still don't get it. Can you really not see that if we stop consuming plastic and oil then the government will stop investing in it?

You can keep pretending to misunderstand my post (I don't think you're as stupid as you're making out) because you don't want to admit that consumers drive environmental destruction.

WorraLiberty · 20/08/2021 17:27

I didn't think that would happen either, but so many people said they supported the protest and thanked us.

Not one single negative comment all the way - which surprised me, because I expected hostility

Wait a minute OP.

You said you just went to an event and got given a badge, so what were people thanking you for? Confused

Did the whole carriage stand up and clap too?

Lookjaz · 20/08/2021 17:29

All extinction rebellion supporters need to understand that climate change is a natural phenomenon and has been happening since day one, and that their protests cause more carbon to be released into the atmosphere

ReggaetonLente · 20/08/2021 17:30

HeyDemonsItsYaGirl I don't think YOU get it, and I think you sound pretty stupid yourself. You could save some carbon and stop writing bitchy messages to me, if you'd like?

Eskarina1 · 20/08/2021 17:34

Climate change is a natural phenomenon. The climate crisis is not and has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to be both potentially catastrophic medium term and as a direct result of human behaviour.

Hypnoshiding · 20/08/2021 18:05

I really don't get tbe arugument 'some are working class'.

How is that better? They are quite happy making other people's lives more difficult, when all they are trying to do is get to work to pay their bills.

I am completely baffled by 'people were thanking us', thanking you for what?

If the BLM protests, last year had just been 'we don't like racisim', we would have been destroyed. Its wasn't enough to just disrupt people, we had to have plan. We had to have solutions. There had to be more to it than 'racisim is bad'. We had to show how racisim impacts us every day, prove its a thing that impacts us everyday. The BLM protests were supported but also widely criticised.

But people are claiming ER are heroes for, simply trying to draw attention to a cause that has loads of attention anyway. And the claim there's no privilege with ER.

Doesn't make sense to me.

BiBabbles · 20/08/2021 18:06

You're not unreasonable to support them, but others aren't unreasonable to be fed up with the tactics of some do under the XR banner or feel that the group's methods may be inefficient at getting to their goals which, as shown in this thread, aren't well communicated. Most activist groups have been accused of worse and XR has had its fair share of bumps so far.

XR have already managed to push change through.

Which changes are directly linked to XR's actions?

I think this is a risk with any big non hierarchical organisation but mass civil disobedience on the whole works so well.

Extinction Rebellion are actually on the whole a very interesting group who have done a lot of research into successful movements of the past (suffragettes, civil rights etc) and have found that disruptive civil disobedience is the most effective way to bring about change.

While it can be useful when used as part of a diverse range of tactics used to tackle an issue, there isn't much evidence that 'on the whole' it works well on its own. Most well known, possibly, but not on meeting goals.

Using suffragettes and civil rights as examples repeatedly given, both involved many groups, with conflicting goals, and they all used a diverse range of methods of which there is still debate on what was most effective and often, particularly in civil rights movements, local groups trained their members on how to handle when conflict would arise so comparing it to a large group of untrained people demonstrating & claiming that's the "most effective way" is to erase the efforts those groups did -- and erase the many many mass protests that resulted in nothing.

Some parts of XR do use other tactics, but so many people keep going back to how mass demonstrations works when there are far more cases of it doing fuck all or even arguably harming a movement. There are even 'victories' attached to mass protests that caused movements to lose steam which meant the same issue came out with barely a ripple in comparison (see ID cards and surveillance issues).

Scientists needs funding...funding comes from the government

Some funding comes from government, but a lot of research funding comes from the private sector as well.

Not sure how either are pressurized by these marches to give more funding. There are marches in London all the time, none of which seem to be really aimed at anyone but general disruption.

but the reason this extreme group exists in the first place is because governments are putting Polling Numbers and Populist policy ahead of a sustainable future for the human race.

If they don't get the votes of ordinary people, it limits their ability to enact future change. They still can, and many activist groups avoid politics entirely because of that, but systems of power do create barriers when against what one is trying to do. Those that go the reformist route - using the use the machinery of the system to improve the system - tend to use political systems which need the will of at least those who vote.

The way I see it, XR isn’t trying to win hearts and minds, it’s trying to shame the government for its inaction.

This reminds me of Stokley Carmichael's words on nonviolent protest - that it relies on the government having a conscience and Carmichael felt that it had none. The whole thing relies on the idea that the government has shame and also that the actions or XR would cause them shame.

God this argument is so frustrating. If we "all lived like monks" then those 10(0) companies would go out of business. But it's easier to claim that you can't make a difference and so you'll just sit back and consume while shaking your sanctimonious head at government.

Many of the top 100 polluting companies are actually government-owned and run and do business with other governments and large corporations on the whole with a global audience. Living like monks wouldn't really effect that without also engaging in wider work too - the less glamourous, less martyr work of tedious meetings, data collection and analysis, and similar work involved in these things.

It is easy to claim that we can't make a difference.

It's also easy to claim that a protest march or anything else makes a difference, but without evidence to back it up, why should anyone believe it?

Can you really not see that if we stop consuming plastic and oil then the government will stop investing in it?

How do you expect our medical services to not use plastics?

How do you expect to readapt all the buildings as previous discussed without the plastics that are involved in that?

Green energy - also requires plastic.

I mean, every 5 minutes there is another bioplastic article that is meant to replace oil-based plastic though none yet are at a level that it can do that, but there is a reason we're using these resources and it's not just because we're lazy consumption hungry assholes - a bit we can lay there which an individual can do (which isn't what XR is targeting), but the largest issues and consumers are industries using these things that we're relying on and 'using' without knowing or having another choice.

54321nought · 20/08/2021 18:13

@LoislovesStewie

More to the point, what does Greta want people/governments to do exactly? Not vague, wishy-washy stuff, but real ideas. And even more to the point, is she willing to live a much simpler life, as per my first post? I'm sorry, but if people want change then they really have to be prepared to stop buying so much of everything and doing without some 'stuff' and I don't see that happening, do you?
People who want change are cheerful doing without now, and people who don't want change will be forced to do without very soon, so yes, I am seeing it happen, and do see it happen more in the future
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54321nought · 20/08/2021 18:15

@SofiaMichelle

Fuck Extinction Rebellion. And their privileged work-shy members. And the disruption they cause. And the mess they leave behind. And the vandalism and destruction. And their hate and harassment.

They don't represent the population.

Why this constant reference to being work shy? The average ER member has worked more hours of their life than the average MN poster! because many of them are retired, after 40 years full time work!
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LoislovesStewie · 20/08/2021 18:18

54321nought But they don't. The younger generation are epic consumers. I mean, have you honestly not seen all the tech that teens have in their bedrooms? The huge amount of clothes? Getting the latest whatever, despite the older version still working? If you don't know teens like that, there are plenty of them out there!

54321nought · 20/08/2021 18:19

@HOkieCOkie

Absolute arseholes the lot of them! And you didn’t get support on the train, it’s more Londoners just don’t really care enough to talk to you!
thats what I am saying, loads of Londoners DID talk to us, and it was 100% supportive
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54321nought · 20/08/2021 18:22

@Lookjaz

All extinction rebellion supporters need to understand that climate change is a natural phenomenon and has been happening since day one, and that their protests cause more carbon to be released into the atmosphere
What is happening right now is NOT natural
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54321nought · 20/08/2021 18:23

@Eskarina1

Climate change is a natural phenomenon. The climate crisis is not and has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt to be both potentially catastrophic medium term and as a direct result of human behaviour.
Exactly
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PicsInRed · 20/08/2021 18:24

Funny observation, as Covid rates in Bristol were pretty low until Autumn.

Numbers were "low" most places until the 2nd wave because of the lack of tests.

Would love to see your posts about the Cheltenham Races, Six Nations and Champions League... I'll wait.

I posted plenty about that, as well as Greta's mega climate party. I remember they were challenged around cancelling, but they justified it going ahead because of the climate emergency. Hmm

54321nought · 20/08/2021 18:24

@LoislovesStewie

54321nought But they don't. The younger generation are epic consumers. I mean, have you honestly not seen all the tech that teens have in their bedrooms? The huge amount of clothes? Getting the latest whatever, despite the older version still working? If you don't know teens like that, there are plenty of them out there!
some teens are like that, many are much more environmentally aware
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