to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

[54321nought]

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

Why this constant reference to being work shy? The average ER member has worked more hours of their life than the average MN poster! because many of them are retired, after 40 years full time work!

Who retires between 56-62?

Most people that age would have been working since at least 16.

Can you direct me to the break down of ER participants, in the UK, by age.

54321nought Sorry but I think you are living in some sort of parallel universe. What they wanted to do was bunk off school on a Friday! And saying they were protesting about climate change was a way to have fun and create mayhem while doing it. Much better than what my cohort did when we just hid out in the loos or sneaked home.

@Hypnoshiding

Why this constant reference to being work shy? The average ER member has worked more hours of their life than the average MN poster! because many of them are retired, after 40 years full time work!

Who retires between 56-62?

Most people that age would have been working since at least 16.

Can you direct me to the break down of ER participants, in the UK, by age.

I retired at 58.

@LoislovesStewie and what was your job, because being able to retire before retirement age, is a privilege on itself. It means yoh are in a fairly good and privileged position.

Thags my point. What group of people can afford to retire, well before retirement age?

@Theluggage15

Bunch of middle class twats. Overwhelmingly white little cult it is too. The U.K. is responsible for 1% of global carbon emissions, why don’t they protest somewhere like China and see how that goes down.

To be fair to China, they pollute much more because they produce so much stuff for us. It's very hypocritical to blame them when they're basically the factory of Europe. People really shouldn't buy from China, buy locally.

@Darker

The problem is that there will always be another nit to pick to have a go at people campaigning in this area. No one has ever done enough to please the critics.

Crap. A lot of people are worried about climate change, and there is absolutely a space for campaigners who are capable of campaigning in positive ways, not negative.

XR aren't it and they are doing worse than fuck all for their cause. They stop ordinary people from getting to work by public transport
They trash wherever they protest leaving mountains of litter in their wake
They are a bunch of patronising hypocritical spoilt bastards who would do the world a favour by just shutting up and letting some normal people have a go

Apart from that I'm a fan

I didn't omit palm oil because the point is irrelevant.
Palm oil is the most efficient crop of it's kind. Unless you go absolutely off grid there's no way to avoid it. People who boycott palm merely push demand onto a less sustainable product. The best approach is to support sustainable palm oil. Something er could get behind instead of stopping people getting to work.

@LoislovesStewie

54321nought Sorry but I think you are living in some sort of parallel universe. What they wanted to do was bunk off school on a Friday! And saying they were protesting about climate change was a way to have fun and create mayhem while doing it. Much better than what my cohort did when we just hid out in the loos or sneaked home.

....many of whom were prepared to come into school over an hour early on every other day of the week, so that teachers who wished to support them were able to help them catch up....

@LoislovesStewie

54321nought Sorry but I think you are living in some sort of parallel universe. What they wanted to do was bunk off school on a Friday! And saying they were protesting about climate change was a way to have fun and create mayhem while doing it. Much better than what my cohort did when we just hid out in the loos or sneaked home.

As a Bristolian who was working in the city centre on the day of the protest I can say this is spot on. It was teenagers getting a day of school and I would imagine a small minority were actually bothered about the reason for it- they didn't exactly try to hide their motivations! Someone posted a video upthread of someone interviewing a group of teenagers on an XR protest and yes, that was the atmosphere on the Bristol protest. And, naturally, they left a hell of a lot of litter behind for the council workers to pick up.

They are a bunch of patronising hypocritical spoilt bastards who would do the world a favour by just shutting up and letting some normal people have a go

They are normal people.

As I said, most of the retirees I have met at ER have been doctors, lawyers, teachers, plumbers, builders etc.

They have excellent legal advice because of the number of retired lawyers working for them, and they have excellent advice on police procedure, because of the sheer number of retired police officers who support them.

These are normal people!

And if you are normal, and want to "have a go"- what would you do differently?

On Monday I need to take my disabled daughter to an appointment at the Evelina and I'm worried we will be delayed by extinction rebellion. Does anyone know where they will be protesting? I'm trying to work out how much extra time to leave to get there. She also has sensory issues and I'm worried she won't cope if there's lots of noise and won't be able to cooperate in her appointment if she's having a meltdown 

many of whom were prepared to come into school over an hour early on every other day of the week, so that teachers who wished to support them were able to help them catch up....

You are having a laugh. How many colleges and schools did this? Do you really think most of these teenagers, worked these hours back?

Its quite obvious, this thread isn't in good faith. You absolutely do support them and keep making stuff up to try and convince people that they are amazing. Why not just post saying you are going and would like to draw attention to it, in case other people want to go?

You appear to be far more involved with them, than you are letting on.

@54321nought
I don't work in PR but I really think that, in their enormous group of retired people there must be someone who did and I think a very good idea for people in XR to think about how they can get attention for their cause- imo a worthy one- without pissing off and inconveniencing the general public. A huge number of people are concerned about climate change, they have basically got an open goal in front of them but they totally miss it every time- and bizarrely seem to do it on purpose.

I know the poster darker seems to think XR exist to attract attention rather than do anything meaningful themselves, but if that is how they see themselves, and if they really care about climate change, then a good place for them to start would be to just ...bloody....stop

Upthread there have been posts that the reason China has so many polluting factories is because people in the west buy so much stuff from there.
I am sure this is true but how can the UK government - or the government of any democratic country - stop this from happening?

Trade restrictions and consumer incentives to buy UK and Eu made. Incentives to UK businesses who manufacture here. Restrictions on plastic tat.

They are normal people

Again, do you have any demographics on this. With some actual detail?

Theres a huge difference between a labourer who works for a building firm and a builder who owns their own business with a huge staff. There's a huge difference between the labourer and a lawyer.

And I would really shocked if a labourer, took days unpaid, to go disrupt other people's lives.

Restrictions could be taxes for example, limits on sales, banning certain plastics that can't be easily recycled.

@Darker
*And eating meat is also not straightforward.

When we are looking at feeding all the humans on the planet there are some places where sheep farming or similar is the optimum use of that land. Equally some crops are harmful, especially if you cut good forest down to grow it.*

Now that is something we can agree on!

Haven’t the next generation got a right to be bloody raging at all our carry on and the mess they’re inheriting?

And to that well I am only 30, until 5 minutes ago I was the 'next generation'. Which is why I do feel perfectly entitled to be annoyed that instead of the threads we had last week with many discussing the issues, we now have this. Social politics. We keep elevating the wrong people for these jobs. Its a repetitive problem. And its not exclusive to Greta - We currently have a president in the US with borderline dementia causing extreme harm and that pisses me off too.

And before you say it - no I am not very PC or diplomatic. But I dont claim to be.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/19613/opinion-on-extinction-rebellion-protests-uk/

This poll shows that whilst most people care about the environment, they disagree with er methods.

So if the public are on board and already know all the facts about climate change then what are er actually hoping to achieve?

They've got no clout to 'shame' the government into anything because the public rightly think they are shortsighted and heavy handed in their approach.

And they don't learn. Several people have brought up how jobs have been lost, hospital visits jeopardized and emergency services disrupted. For what? It mostly looks like so people can virtue signal whilst behaving like they are at a festival.

I can guarantee if the next protest aligned with Glastonbury etc they'd be far less take up. Er have grown in covid because it was a way to hang out without 'judgement'.

I am sure this is true but how can the UK government - or the government of any democratic country - stop this from happening?
Not a serious suggestion but whenever my MIL sends us mountains of pointless tat (scented table sequins, that kind of guff) I always think the only thing that will stop consumption is to bring back rationing.

Hypnoshiding I worked in local government. Not in a high position at all. And I don't support extinction rebellion.

@maddening

Restrictions could be taxes for example, limits on sales, banning certain plastics that can't be easily recycled.

Ok, but then why governments aren’t doing this. If I ask why it’s not happening here everyone will say is because the Tories are so useless - ok, so why aren’t the EU or countries like Sweden and Norway imposing these restrictions? Maybe other countries have less desire for endless useless plastic tat.

@LoislovesStewie

Hypnoshiding I worked in local government. Not in a high position at all. And I don't support extinction rebellion.

Your support, or lack of, isn't really the issue.

Being able to retire at 58 is a privileged position in today's society in the UK. Especially, in comparison, to the people who were missing days pay because of XR.

The op pointed out that 'most' people involved with the worked 40 years and are retired. The fact that they have, most likely retired young means they still have a privileged position over the people's whose lives they are disrupting.

You may not have been senior, but you can't pretend that being able to retire at 58 isn't a privileged position.

Which was op was saying 'these people aren't privileged, they are normal people. But, that were able to afford to retire from their mid 50s.'

Which brings us back full circle to the fact that many of the people at XR protests seem to not realise (or don't care) about their impact on the people they are stopping getting to work, who can't afford to just miss a day.

That's why I asked the question 'who retires at 56', because the answer is people in a fairly privileged position. Which is the point she was disputing.

I am not saying you don't care about people struggling, BTW. Simply that ops argument that these aren't, in the main, privileged people makes no sense.

The op pointed out that 'most' people involved with the worked 40 years and are retired. The fact that they have, most likely retired young means they still have a privileged position over the people's whose lives they are disrupting

40 years is the minimum I would have expected a retired person to have worked.

I am sure some have worked 40 years, and some 50, or more.

Many ER activists are very elderly, retired people, that is the point - so it is complete nonsense to say they need to get a job!

And of the younger ones - many do have jobs, and take annual leave to protest

@54321nought

The op pointed out that 'most' people involved with the worked 40 years and are retired. The fact that they have, most likely retired young means they still have a privileged position over the people's whose lives they are disrupting

40 years is the minimum I would have expected a retired person to have worked.

I am sure some have worked 40 years, and some 50, or more.

Many ER activists are very elderly, retired people, that is the point - so it is complete nonsense to say they need to get a job!

And of the younger ones - many do have jobs, and take annual leave to protest

Again, do you have stats? Demographics?

You said they worked 40 years. It's like you can't grasp you can be retired AND ne privileged and not realise (or care) about people living pay check to pay check. Or you can't be a lawyer and not realise, that actually some people will be fucked if they can't get to work for a day or two or more.

All the groups you have mentioned can definitely be privileged and nort understand the fairly devastating impact their 'disruption' has.

If most of the people at those 'disruptions' were retired then they are extremely privileged. Because the vast majority were not 60 plus. Or do they stay behind. Just send out some younger folk to actually do the disrupting.

And also, if they have an army of retired professionals at their finger tips, you would think at least a few of them would have tbe brain to realise they aren't winning people over and actually hurting some of the most vulnerable.

And yes, I guess some will be taking annual leave. Great for them, they are getting paid. Bet they wouldn't take it unpaid, though.

Since you know so much about them the inner working and demographics. Why are you asking if its unreasonable me to support them. You already do.