to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

[54321nought]

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

I'd be very, very surprised if the average er protester even knew what they were calling for beyond a general ideological 'save the environment'.

Even this thread has brought up misconceptions by the op. The op clearly stating that eating chicken is good for the environment. This is wrong and whilst the answer may not be to boycott meat, certainly I would expect individuals who are disrupting others' lives to have at least a basic understanding of how to be environmental on a personal level and implement it.

Yes, there is a trend for people to take personal responsibility, but corporations not so much. However, our biggest power is as consumers. If clothing companies for example, saw a big drop in fast fashion and uptake for longer lasting clothes they might start producing quality over quantity, with perhaps an in store mending service. As a pp said, the reason these big companies carry on is because we continue to consume from them. Harder with things like energy, although most people these days use an energy efficient provider. Easier with other things. I'd be interested in which sectors have the most impact and would like environmental groups to look at how they could be reached without causing mayhem for the general public.

I just find xr all rooted in ideology over practicality. And it's not working. They've absolutely lost the public so have zero sway now.

I'm sure I'm not being thick, but nowhere does it say how to help, just what initiatives are running. So at present all I can do is keep our local councillor in power as they've obviously made changes.

And you definitely would not want me to refit anything or have any involvement in practical things. That's not my skillset.

This is what xr should focus on: making it easier for people to help. Beyond letter writing campaigns individuals have very little power. They need to be helping channel it to something productive. At the moment they just seem to provide an angst outlet.

Practical achievable goals and solutions. That's what I want. (And not something I have to flip my whole life around for, I you want people onboard it needs to be manageable.)

@BelleOfTheProvince

Yes, my council have declared a climate emergency. There are many positive changes that can be viewed in my city. Xr had no involvement in their implementation.

And why should XR be involved in implementation? I am not directly involved with them other than speaking to my neighbors who are, but as I understood it, their role is to get the emergency nature of the climate crisis acknowledged by governments and mechanisms set up to make plans to tackle it.

So they just want to run around screaming 'do panic, do panic' and then pretend they were the instigators of all the actual work which was already in the making?

@Darker

Because he was late on the day those two idiots decided to glue themselves to an essential piece of public transport he was sent home and removed from the roster for that job losing us £480

This is awful, EstuaryBird. But surely lateness can happen for lots of reasons and the disruption caused by the protests were well documented, so it should have been easy to prove that the lateness was not his fault. Surely at least some of the blame sits with his employer for draconian employment practices and removing him from the roster?

Very true, he could have been late for other reasons and the outcome would have been the same. But he was late because 2 gurning idiots glued themselves to a train.

Zero hours Security work is a cut throat job and the firm he (no longer) works for always ‘over-ordered’ staff and when the requirement was filled anyone else was sent home. He was taken off for the full 4 days of the job as he couldn’t attend the induction. Happily he now has a better job.

Just really annoyed because nobody can justify to me how it helped to save the environment…..including the OP.

their role is to get the emergency nature of the climate crisis acknowledged by governments and mechanisms set up to make plans to tackle it.

Well they've failed at that because due to their tactics the general public have been turned against environmental issues and so are less likely to vote with them in mind.

They've also made it easy for the government to dismiss them because they are extremists, unorganized and ineffective.

If I had my tin hat on I'd say they were actually sock puppets designed to slow the momentum of the environmental movement.

But I think in reality they are just crap.

*The abuse they get is exactly what suffragettes got, that is the whole point of disruption - to disrupt.

Clearly on the environment they are right, there is a crisis, we are not doing enough.*

We have been making good gains in recent years - even throughout COVID, look at the threads on recently with pages of concerned people.

The problem is these idiots create apathy. I have been quite happy to talk about the environmental crisis these last few years, but after this every one is just going to go 'eugh' and no one is going to want to talk about it for a while. Its no longer a pub convo, its now all about ER

And as much as greta is an incredible person - I am not sure why they have chosen her to be the poster child. The scowling vitriol filled face works at first when everyone thinks your 12. But shes not. Shes now an adult. Recently posting videos about how the UK has been lying. And I get shes not neurotypical, but this is a topic where we need someone who is diplomatic and good at building bridges not dividing people.

Imagine your at work and you have to deal with that. You just roll your eyes and ignore them. And thats the issue - everyone has to work together. And we have some adult children in the office banging drums, causing disruption, pointing fingers and being vitriolic.

@BelleOfTheProvince

their role is to get the emergency nature of the climate crisis acknowledged by governments and mechanisms set up to make plans to tackle it.

Well they've failed at that because due to their tactics the general public have been turned against environmental issues and so are less likely to vote with them in mind.

They've also made it easy for the government to dismiss them because they are extremists, unorganized and ineffective.

If I had my tin hat on I'd say they were actually sock puppets designed to slow the momentum of the environmental movement.

But I think in reality they are just crap.

To give XR their due, they are the reason that so many councils have put tackling the climate emergency on their agenda. I have been working in the climate tech field for a while and we, alongside many other organisations, have never been able to achieve the same traction. But XR will in time become irrelevant hopefully.

but we (the UK) are responsible for a large slice of the pie chart allocated to China, we outsource our polluting to them, and other countries like Malaysia

But that’s not what XR is marching for. I just told you what their website says. They want the UK to agree to zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2025. Nothing about the connections between Malaysia or China or how we’ve offloaded our pollution. You do know what you’re marching for, don’t you?

But moving forward, practical actions lead from a conversation around what society sees as the key priorities and the detail will start to emerge. I’ve got personal opinions on all sorts of green issues but I’m only passionate or very knowledgeable about one. Maybe pick one issue that you really care about, say fast fashion, and think about how it could work differently in your area. It’s not an area I know a lot about but if we all taught our children how to do simple clothes mending, or we swap clothes with friends, it’s a start and quite a nice thing to do. And it doesn’t alienate people who can’t afford to buy better quality.

I find that if you get stuck in with something, you learn and it focuses your thoughts around what will and won’t work.

@LemonSwan

*The abuse they get is exactly what suffragettes got, that is the whole point of disruption - to disrupt.

Clearly on the environment they are right, there is a crisis, we are not doing enough.*

We have been making good gains in recent years - even throughout COVID, look at the threads on recently with pages of concerned people.

The problem is these idiots create apathy. I have been quite happy to talk about the environmental crisis these last few years, but after this every one is just going to go 'eugh' and no one is going to want to talk about it for a while. Its no longer a pub convo, its now all about ER

And as much as greta is an incredible person - I am not sure why they have chosen her to be the poster child. The scowling vitriol filled face works at first when everyone thinks your 12. But shes not. Shes now an adult. Recently posting videos about how the UK has been lying. And I get shes not neurotypical, but this is a topic where we need someone who is diplomatic and good at building bridges not dividing people.

Imagine your at work and you have to deal with that. You just roll your eyes and ignore them. And thats the issue - everyone has to work together. And we have some adult children in the office banging drums, causing disruption, pointing fingers and being vitriolic.

Greta is responsible for the School Climate Strike and Fridays for Future. I don't think she is behind XR and nor does she represent them.

You say yourself everyone has to work together but you've had a pop at a very young woman with autism ('scowling vitriol filled face') and calling people idiots.

I try really hard not to buy products made in China, partly for environmental reasons, but also because of their appalling human rights record, but it's incredibly difficult.

And there seems to be no way of knowing if something made elsewhere includes components made in China.

@LakieLady Honestly, it’s great that you’re even trying. That matters. I do it for the same exact reasons as you (partially environmental, partially human rights). None of us get these things right 100% of the time. The goal is to purchase thoughtfully, if possible. Your best bet is, if you know you need to purchase something in particular, like clothing or something in a box*, Google the company or product you’re considering, or the name of the company and “made in China” to see what comes up, or check sites like ProductFrom.com, especially for home electronics, or Reddit’s avoidchineseproducts, which might be a bit American-centric. Also, not sure if you’re aware, but the new thing is to put “Made in PRC” to avoid the “Made in China” label. PRC is just People’s Republic of China.

*For example, if no website will list where something is made, when I’m considering buying it, I’ll try to find a picture of the back of the box online which will say “Made in China/PRC.”

@BelleOfTheProvince

Yes, my council have declared a climate emergency. There are many positive changes that can be viewed in my city. Xr had no involvement in their implementation.

So has my local authority. However, it's also announced there will be 107 cruise ships visitsing overnight over 12 the next months, which seems a little at odds to that decision. I've just witnessed 2 huge skips of waste, the size of the ones you see at a tip (rather than the ones you can park outside your house) being taken away by 2 HGVs from the one that's moored there at the moment. They've also installed a cycle near the Pier Head lane though, so swings/roundabouts.

This is why it’s important to keep an eye on what’s going on at local authorities

*they've also installed a cycle lane near the Pier Head

My new phone is shoite.

Even this thread has brought up misconceptions by the op. The op clearly stating that eating chicken is good for the environment. This is wrong and whilst the answer may not be to boycott meat, certainly I would expect individuals who are disrupting others' lives to have at least a basic understanding of how to be environmental on a personal level and implement it.

I said eating chicken is better for the environment than eating beef, lamb or fish

@Darker

XR are idiots,

And Greta is giving scowling teen rage vibes.

Its hardly debatable - these are observations which many would make.

And the fact I conflate the two is exactly the point I am trying to make.

After next week chat on environmental issues are no longer about environmental issues - they are now about XR, Greta and whoever else pops up.

Oh yeah, the bunch of 30 or so, all off their heads on drugs dancing wildly in the middle of London. What do they raise awareness for again ??

More to the point, what does Greta want people/governments to do exactly? Not vague, wishy-washy stuff, but real ideas. And even more to the point, is she willing to live a much simpler life, as per my first post? I'm sorry, but if people want change then they really have to be prepared to stop buying so much of everything and doing without some 'stuff' and I don't see that happening, do you?

Greta is known for making life choices that reduce her footprint. Remember her travelling by train and boat to get around the world?

Honestly I despair.

@RightYesButNo

but we (the UK) are responsible for a large slice of the pie chart allocated to China, we outsource our polluting to them, and other countries like Malaysia

But that’s not what XR is marching for. I just told you what their website says. They want the UK to agree to zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2025. Nothing about the connections between Malaysia or China or how we’ve offloaded our pollution. You do know what you’re marching for, don’t you?

You're talking about the UK branch of XR targeting the UK govt.

Of course they are going to be focused on UK emissions, not like the British govt can legislate for other countries is it.

That doesn't interfere with the fact that the UK outsourcing pollution and waste to other countries is problematic.

@Darker

Greta is known for making life choices that reduce her footprint. Remember her travelling by train and boat to get around the world?

Honestly I despair.

Perhaps staying at home and not travelling at all would be better.

And why are you expecting a young woman to come up with all the answers? She’s done absolutely loads to get young people engaged in this issue. She’s made people listen to young people and to think about the next generation.

[quote PicsInRed]Remember this? 28 Feb 2020. It was a large and densely packed climate protest of youth, attended by Greta Thunberg who had travelled in from abroad. Many of us couldn't fucking believe this was going ahead as covid was already spreading in the community. The world is on fire indeed.

We locked down only 3 weeks later.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-51663632[/quote]
Funny observation, as Covid rates in Bristol were pretty low until Autumn.

Would love to see your posts about the Cheltenham Races, Six Nations and Champions League... I'll wait.