to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

[54321nought]

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

@Darker

Because he was late on the day those two idiots decided to glue themselves to an essential piece of public transport he was sent home and removed from the roster for that job losing us £480

This is awful, EstuaryBird. But surely lateness can happen for lots of reasons and the disruption caused by the protests were well documented, so it should have been easy to prove that the lateness was not his fault. Surely at least some of the blame sits with his employer for draconian employment practices and removing him from the roster?

@darker do you really think this kind of thing endears people to the cause? It just makes you look like you have no grasp of what normal working life consists of.

a few tips: most people have to work, unfortunately, although you have said that most people protesting are retired which is lovely for them, but just because they don't have to get to work and can have an enjoyable day out with like minded friends, most people do actually have to work and many people are not in a position to wrangle with their boss about their employment practices (NB this suggestion also makes you look completely out of touch with ordinary working people)

Public transport specifically targeted? Mmm including electric low carbon. Massive disruption for ordinary folks with nothing positive added to the climate debate. The same group who decided it would block print offices as it did not like what the free press was saying. This is mostly a middle class endeavour by people who do not need to work as they do not pay any bills. Mommy and Daddy and the trust fund does. Google the Canning Town tube protest to see what working people thought of this protest last time.

Well I think this thread goes some why to show why the planet is fucked.

There are some vile posts on this thread. I really hope they're trolls.

Not a fan of ER, but there’s clearly a huge discrepancy between the scale and urgency of the climate crisis and the lack of action by governments/huge corporations to tackle it. Another Heathrow runway anyone?

So it’s all well saying ER is stupid, useless, whatever whatever, but where is the pressure? Where is Boris Johnson’s grand plan? Where is the huge investment in green technology and huge fines on polluting companies?

A huge number of people get more worked up about the supposed idiocy of a few hundred members of ER than they do crop failure, fires, melting icecaps, etc. Our grandchildren won’t be impressed.

@EmilyDickinson

One of the most depressing threads I’ve ever read

Yes it is depressing that those who say they care about the environment don't even want to make the basic changes most people who think xr have the wrong idea make.

Xr may sound good in theory, but they are directless, have no achievable goals and cause more problems than they solve.

Their followers preach about the environment whilst having terrible environmental impact themselves: most of them eat meat and they actually stop more environmentally sound options like trains and buses.
It's just a mouthpiece for people to feel superior. This thread would probably be quite uplifting if everyone listed their own environmental efforts. But normal people don't like to do that. We just quietly get on with doing our bit.

Xr need to find a way to impact the government and big corporations without making ordinary people's lives harder.

@darker do you really think this kind of thing endears people to the cause? It just makes you look like you have no grasp of what normal working life consists of.

a few tips: most people have to work, unfortunately, although you have said that most people protesting are retired which is lovely for them, but just because they don't have to get to work and can have an enjoyable day out with like minded friends, most people do actually have to work and many people are not in a position to wrangle with their boss about their employment practices (NB this suggestion also makes you look completely out of touch with ordinary working people)

I believe the OP and I also deplore terrible employment practice. What if the lateness was caused by flooding or an anti-Lockdown protest or a terrorist incident or an accident?

I support what they want to achieve but their methods are totally counter-productive.

This thread is shameful. My poor tiny baby daughter, I feel bad for the world I am sending her out into.

Getting hung up on details and thinking XR's hypocrisy is a massive "gotcha!" misses the point by miles.

We will all be going up in flames and without their disruption it would barely be mentioned. Of course they are imperfect people with imperfect strategies. This crisis will not be solved by a fringe movement, perfect or otherwise.

If you want it to end, make a better suggestion to generate government led major action! Or do you just advocate burying our heads in the sand and pretending that forgoing quinoa and palm oil will fix things?

@Theythinkitsalloveritisnow
do you really think this kind of thing endears people to the cause

Huge numbers of People are still in a position of needing to be “endeared to the cause” because governments are abdicating responsibility for something which will cause future generations famine and death on an unprecedented scale. You and I might think many of the actions/protests of E.R. are poorly chosen or self defeating or whatever, but the reason this extreme group exists in the first place is because governments are putting Polling Numbers and Populist policy ahead of a sustainable future for the human race. Getting angry about E.R. is like having your house invaded by a herd of elephants and being angry about them having not first washed their feet.

@BelleOfTheProvince

Xr need to find a way to impact the government and big corporations without making ordinary people's lives harder.

This. Aside from giving the Home Office an increased policing bill what EXACTLY does ER actually DO to influence or change Govt. policy? This is a serious question.

@ufucoffee

They are a bunch of wankers who piss people off and therefore do more harm than good for the cause the are supporting. They are a laughing stock.

Yep, and when you state your experience with them their supporters use classic gaslighting tactics.

@BelleOfTheProvince

I had a boss (much hated) who used to say 'don't bring me problems, bring me solutions'. However, it does seem quite applicable to xr.

For those who don’t like XR, what alternatives would you suggest to achieve change at the scale and pace needed?

Some of us have been signing petitions and lobbying our MP for decades and it hasn’t worked. My work involves technical solutions to tackling the climate emergency and it is already making an significant impact, as is the efforts of thousands of other organisations and individuals, but it isn’t anywhere near enough to avoid the worst scenarios and never will be alone.
Something else is needed to drive policy change that will enable the rapid shifts needed, for example to alternatives to fossil fuels.

Fuck extinction rebellion.

They'll only have to stop the wrong kind of person either going to work or trying to get to a hospital and they'll get a deserved shoeing.
The moment they started fucking with the average working members of public just trying to pay bills or visit loved ones they lost any credibility.

Why don't you actually do something worthwhile like litter pick a beach or park?

Where is Boris Johnson’s grand plan? Where is the huge investment in green technology

Some answers here:

www.gov.uk/government/news/over-500m-new-investment-in-green-technologies-for-a-cleaner-and-healthier-future

www.gov.uk/government/news/over-90-million-government-funding-to-power-green-technologies

www.energyvoice.com/renewables-energy-transition/314359/europe-wind-2020-investment-uk/

questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2021-07-13/32401

@BelleOfTheProvince
We just quietly get on with doing our bit
Unfortunately British people have among the highest carbon footprints on the planet. That’s not even including the fact that Britain has outsourced much of its production/pollution of goods it’s citizens use to developing countries. British people “quietly getting on “ isn’t a solution.

Xr need to find a way to impact the government and big corporations without making ordinary people's lives harder
Perhaps we should all pressuring the government rather than relying on 1 person in 10000 (and then criticising them for how they’ve gone about it)

When they came to Bristol they literally had street parties which stopped buses and other traffic getting to hospitals in the city centre. The irony of these idiots is hilarious!

@NantesElephant I assume your tactics don’t involve smashing the windows of businesses, leaving large amounts of litter (mainly single use plastic) all over roads, verbally abusing people or prevent access to healthcare?

but the reason this extreme group exists in the first place is because governments are putting Polling Numbers and Populist policy ahead of a sustainable future for the human race.

But xr actions are not changing this. If anything they turn people away from environmental issues so they are less likely to demand said changes needed.

Some changes er could work on that have less impact on the public could be:

Engage healthcare professionals and scientists with helping the UK turn their diet to a more sustainable model. This could include: helping the food industry make appropriate changes, switching farming bursaries to crops over livestock. Advertising and promotion of more sustainable foodstuffs on television and online. Ban on food production companies that have unsustainable pact on the environment from advertising at peak times.
Updating old buildings like schools so they are more energy efficient and can have access to different energy sources.

Updating public transport (there's a biofuel bus near me, not sure if this is widespread yet)

Why aren't they doing things like this?

[quote Clavinova]Where is Boris Johnson’s grand plan? Where is the huge investment in green technology

Some answers here:

www.gov.uk/government/news/over-500m-new-investment-in-green-technologies-for-a-cleaner-and-healthier-future

www.gov.uk/government/news/over-90-million-government-funding-to-power-green-technologies

www.energyvoice.com/renewables-energy-transition/314359/europe-wind-2020-investment-uk/

questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2021-07-13/32401[/quote]
It’s a start but none of this is anywhere near enough. Especially whilst there are so many contradictions - for example it is still government policy to “maximise economic recovery” of oil and gas from the UK.

@Clavinova
I don’t think £90 million quid is going to change a damn thing. I’ve seen bigger lottery wins.

Nor will the £500 million spread over 6 years. To quote a favourite BJ term, in terms of the UK economy and industry, £500 million over six years is “peanuts”. That’s if it’s actually delivered, which of course it probably won’t be.

No wonder Friends of the Earth, one of the most reputable environment charities, were scathing in their summation of the last Conservatives manifesto for the Environment compared to that of virtually every other party.

@supermoonrising
So huge numbers of people need to be persuaded how important it is for government to tackle climate change.

Good idea. So why don't XR try doing that? Because at the moment most of their actions seem to do the opposite and just irritate people and make them switch off.

Protest has an important role to play in a democracy but what is the point of protest that actually causes the public to be less likely to listen to your message?

@BelleOfTheProvince
ALL of those things are the job of the government. The government isn’t listening. Hence, groups like E.R.

I imagine part of the reason the protest are getting “absurd” or “shocking” is because governments are not listening to reason. The collective impact of government policy is to almost completely ignore scientific reason and rationality and recommendation regarding climate change. If a group can’t be reasoned with, what IS the solution?

To be honest of there were a proactive environmental group who were making real changes I'd join them.
But that's definitely not xr. Whatever their aims, they are basically undermining their own cause at this point. Happy to look into alternative groups if anyone has any suggestions.

I just don't think dying your hair blue and covering yourself in glitter whilst stopping traffic helps the cause much and I've yet to be convinced otherwise.

Xr seem to be happy to demand change from others whilst doing very little themselves.

[quote Theythinkitsalloveritisnow]@supermoonrising
So huge numbers of people need to be persuaded how important it is for government to tackle climate change.

Good idea. So why don't XR try doing that? Because at the moment most of their actions seem to do the opposite and just irritate people and make them switch off.

Protest has an important role to play in a democracy but what is the point of protest that actually causes the public to be less likely to listen to your message?[/quote]
That pretty much sums it up.