to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

[54321nought]

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

I’d much rather be surrounding by football fans, I’m yet to be verbally abused by any.

I find some of the responses here so weird

Belittling XR because they're middle class..? But surely many working class people may like to join protests but literally can't because they cannot afford to miss work. So surely people who have the privilege to do so (middle class people) can use that privilege to protest for a cause. I don't understand the people going 'bunch of middle class twats' ok? They're middle class? Your point being?

And people criticising how environmental their own personal lives may be...don't understand the point of XR. Their point is that environmentalism has been marketed as an individual responsibility but it's not, it's the responsibility of government to create laws and rules to generate large scale change and encourage big business to change. I know some people heavily involved in XR and they do actually try to be as environmental as they can, but the point is political change

People saying the UK is tiny go protest China...I find pretty ignorant to be honest. Sure China produces loads of pollution....making products which WE buy. It's easy for the western world to point the finger at Chinese factories and say well WE don't have loads of polluting factories (while buying loads of stuff that has been produced in China)

XR have a very bad reputation but it gets people talking, which is what they want. They need to get attention yes that's the point. They need to get the attention of the government because they are doing nothing and what else can we do to demand change?

Darker

Yes there as different ways to structure a movement, but when actions are being taken in the name of that movement the movement takes responsibility for it.

And that includes all of the poorly behaved crap that is done in its name.

@Eskarina1

It might not be extinction but societal breakdown is a realistic possibility and within my children's working lives. The science is saying we have a fighting chance but we're not fighting. Quietly living an eco conscious life is not enough when the biggest problems are at government/corporation level. One of the most important things we can do is talk about it.

So if disruption isn't the answer, what is?

Yes we are fighting, have been since the 1950s when the green movement started. Stop lapping up the XR propaganda that nothing has been done/is being done. Governments and corporations have changed. Even the oil companies like Shell have invested trillions in green energy.

@AngryWhompingWillow

Oh no not THEM again Over privileged spoilt brats with more money than sense. About time they got a bloody job.

Sunny weather predicted is it? Never see them 'protesting' in sub zero temperatures do you?

Someone needs to hose them down. DREADFUL people.

Pity Boris was made to get rid of the water canon when he was Mayor of London!

So if disruption isn't the answer, what is?

We need to show people how they can live a life which is gentler on the planet without looking like a bit part in the army of the twelve monkeys.

@salviapages
Their point is that environmentalism has been marketed as an individual responsibility but it's not, it's the responsibility of government to create laws and rules to generate large scale change and encourage big business to change

It’s a stupid point because it’s a lie. Where do you think emissions and pollution laws and the CO2 commitments come from! The government. And who carries them out, the companies. It was never marketed as just individual responsibility. It was always about and has changed laws worldwide, and created various international commitments and agreements that have had progress on over decades.

If they are travelling from all over to get to the protest how does that sit with looking after the planet?

@Binnaggy

We’re past the point of non-disruptive protest. Remember, we only have the vote because women made bombs, set fire to things and chained themselves to buildings.

We need organisations like ER to make our leaders take action. At the moment we’re just sitting by and letting climate change happen. It will literally be the death of us all.

I thought this was mostly a myth? The suffragettes who took part in that kind of violent protest were a very small minority. And I also thought that the major driver for women finally getting the vote was the first world war when women took over many of the traditionally male jobs while men were away fighting, not to mention their service as nurses on the front lines, disproving the misogynistic traditional idea that women were incapable of doing men's work and thus inferior beings who couldn't be trusted to vote sensibly.

As for ER my message is : If you want to show people how important caring for the environment is, don't drop litter and damage the fucking local environment you irritating numpties!

@ineedaholidaynow

If they are travelling from all over to get to the protest how does that sit with looking after the planet?

Perhaps they should teleport

Hopefully, they'll pick up all their rubbish afterwards.

Ah yes, Extinction Rebellion UK. What’s their demand again? Let’s check. “Government must act now to halt biodiversity loss and reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025.” Straight from their website. UK is responsible for what percentage of greenhouse gases…1%. The smallest amount you could have on this pie chart to be individually ranked. China is the big pink part. We’re a sliver you can’t see. UK could go to net zero and it wouldn’t mean a damn thing as long as China, the US, India, and Russia, don’t do the same. And yet these protests punish UK commuters.

Of course I believe we need to reduce greenhouse gases, but the UK isn’t the problem, and this isn’t the way to do it.

If everyone from Extinction Rebellion never used another product or product with components (from iPhones to Nikes to their metal reusable straws) made in China, it would a MUCH larger effect than these protests.

I’ve got no time for XR, but I’ve got even less time for the halfwits on this thread that seem to get a sexual thrill from the thought of them being beaten up or sprayed by ‘water canon’.

It's a Saturday demonstration

What is happening tomorrow? Two weeks of protests starting Monday according to the Standard;

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/city-of-london-target-extinction-rebellion-xr-protests-b951466.html

throwing around these stereotypes

They create their own stereotypes - you only have to look at their UK website...

XR France Summer Camp: a rebel write-up [2019]

80 or so rebels living in joyous simplicity...

with a line of cars, a van and a motorhome in the background.

extinctionrebellion.uk/2019/09/08/xr-france-summer-camp-an-account/

It's not a lie, it has been marketed this why while also putting those things in place, but it's not enough. Companies/politicians move things around to make it seem like they're meeting targets when they're not. Eg, moving their factory to another country so it looks like less pollution is being created when really they've just moved it. They just manipulate the data so they look good. Very few big companies are making real change.

Another post I saw about how we should raise awareness of scientists who are doing the real work...again seems really ignorant to me? Scientists needs funding...funding comes from the government...XR is focused on getting the government to make changes, for example by allocating more funding to environmental scientists. I feel like so many people on here criticise XR without know anything about them

Case in point the people calling them hippies who need a wash... just openly admitting they are completely ignorant but don't care to change that and will dismiss them anyway. Nothing to be smug about or proud of there

I can understand the aims of XR, but some of their tactics cause more harm than good to their cause:
Supergluing themselves to the London underground -if you don't want people to use their cars or public transport how do you want people to get to work to support their families?
Blocking newspapers leaving the depot - I'm no fan of some papers, but blocking news and the free press?
Blocking roads around hospitals, delaying/stopping ambulances

We've had XR protests where I live... The litter left behind was unbelievable.

I'm not sure what a better solution is but they seem to be sabotaging their own cause as their actions are not gaining public support.

Government must create and be led by the decisions of a Citizens’ Assembly on climate and ecological justice.

Ominous.

@FrippEnos

Darker

Yes there as different ways to structure a movement, but when actions are being taken in the name of that movement the movement takes responsibility for it.

And that includes all of the poorly behaved crap that is done in its name.

Like I said, the Canning Town protest was condemned.

@RightYesButNo

Ah yes, Extinction Rebellion UK. What’s their demand again? Let’s check. “Government must act now to halt biodiversity loss and reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025.” Straight from their website. UK is responsible for what percentage of greenhouse gases…1%. The smallest amount you could have on this pie chart to be individually ranked. China is the big pink part. We’re a sliver you can’t see. UK could go to net zero and it wouldn’t mean a damn thing as long as China, the US, India, and Russia, don’t do the same. And yet these protests punish UK commuters.

Of course I believe we need to reduce greenhouse gases, but the UK isn’t the problem, and this isn’t the way to do it.

If everyone from Extinction Rebellion never used another product or product with components (from iPhones to Nikes to their metal reusable straws) made in China, it would a MUCH larger effect than these protests.

but we (the UK) are responsible for a large slice of the pie chart allocated to China, we outsource our polluting to them, and other countries like Malaysia

You need to have political capital to turn the hand of the government and xr has very little. They are an irritant.

Here you are on MN - and I would say an environment that is aware of climate change and fairly amenable to the changes that need to be made to mitigate the climate emergency but very few have time for XR. It's the wrong tactic and you do more damage than good.

@FourTeaFallOut

So if disruption isn't the answer, what is?

We need to show people how they can live a life which is gentler on the planet without looking like a bit part in the army of the twelve monkeys.

It doesn’t work quickly enough and change needs to happen now at scale.

Darker

And yet ambulances not getting through, people not getting to work, all the litter left seems to be collateral damage or as the OP put it 'wasn't me' (paraphrased).

All for the greater good.

If you are being interviewed by Andrew Neil make sure you have at least done your homework

@RightYesButNo

Ah yes, Extinction Rebellion UK. What’s their demand again? Let’s check. “Government must act now to halt biodiversity loss and reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025.” Straight from their website. UK is responsible for what percentage of greenhouse gases…1%. The smallest amount you could have on this pie chart to be individually ranked. China is the big pink part. We’re a sliver you can’t see. UK could go to net zero and it wouldn’t mean a damn thing as long as China, the US, India, and Russia, don’t do the same. And yet these protests punish UK commuters.

Of course I believe we need to reduce greenhouse gases, but the UK isn’t the problem, and this isn’t the way to do it.

If everyone from Extinction Rebellion never used another product or product with components (from iPhones to Nikes to their metal reusable straws) made in China, it would a MUCH larger effect than these protests.

I try really hard not to buy products made in China, partly for environmental reasons, but also because of their appalling human rights record, but it's incredibly difficult.

And there seems to be no way of knowing if something made elsewhere includes components made in China.