That this does not constitute stealing?

[6079SmithW]

We recently enjoyed a self catering holiday. On the way we decided to break up the journey by stopping for breakfast at a well known chain pub/restaurant/hotel.
The menu was very complicated with only certain things being available to hotel guests rather than others.
My partner and I ordered a cooked breakfast, the DC just wanted something simple so I ordered them a bacon sandwich. I enquired about the small boxes of cereal on display as that was what the DC really wanted. I was told it was part of the hotel guests only breakfast and if DC wanted it it would br £6 each (£12). I ordered that too. My bill was over £30!
The hotel guests additional breakfast was basically the small boxes of cereals plus bread/crumpets to toast. The DC ate a box of cereal and one crumpet each.
Feeling aggrieved that I had spent over £30 on breakfast, and mindful that we were going on a self catering break, I decided to get my monies worth by taking with us a few additional individual portions of jam and Nutella (about 10-12) total. My partner accused me of stealing! WIBU?

If I've read this right, it was £30 for two adult full breakfasts, 2 bacon sandwiches and 2 continental buffet breakfasts?? That's not bad !

If it bothers you enough to post on the internet to random strangers, you could always return them and say they “accidentally fell” into your handbag.

She didn’t start the thread because her conscience was bothering her. She says in the OP that her husband told her that she had stolen the Nutella and jam. Which she had.

@ChipButties

So the jam and Nutella were included in the breakfast which you paid for? Not stealing then! (But if they weren’t included in the breakfast you paid for - stealing)

So if the OP had gone to an all you can eat restaurant and filled up a few Tupperware containers for later in the week, you would confidently assure her that it was “not stealing!”, would you?

After all, all the food in the restaurant was ‘included in the lunch you paid for’.

Some years ago I was on a group course at a residential college and the university paid for a buffet style lunch for us. Some of us took fruit, cheese and so on for the journey back. The waitress got a bit snippy with one girl she saw doing this. I was pretty quick to remind her that our employer had paid for the meal on our behalf and we were free to eat as much or as little as we wished. On the way out I complained to the manager who asked if we would like bags for what we had taken. No doubt the waitress intended to help herself to what was left as part of her perks!

So what s supposed to be done with products like fruit, cheese, cut meat, sandwiches etc which have a limited life? They can hardly be offered to other clients the next day.

Its not a good idea for a snippy little waitress to be telling off professional corporate clients whose employer has paid ££££ for the facilities they use. Regardless of what the part time staff think its not their place to comment.

I can't get over the sense of entitlement that is pervading these comments. First and foremost it is stealing - these items are offered for people who have bought the relevant baked items and there is a trust issue that dictates folk should only take what is reasonable for that. Anything over that is taking the piss (as well as the jam). Apart from anything else what kind of example is being given to children in the group - that it is OK to take what you haven't (legitimately) paid for as long as you can justify it. Perhaps, hotels etc should go back to condiments in little glass dishes (that can be sneezed and coughed over) Would you steal those too? Morally distasteful!

YAbu

You had the choice and decided to pay it to keep your kids happy. Your decision .

£30 for 2x full English breakfasts, 2x bacon rolls and 2 x continental breakfasts is an absolute bargain! I would imagine the bill probably included drinks too so even better value.

Maybe next time just buy your kids one breakfast each and refrain from the petty pilfering.

@memberofthewedding

Some years ago I was on a group course at a residential college and the university paid for a buffet style lunch for us. Some of us took fruit, cheese and so on for the journey back. The waitress got a bit snippy with one girl she saw doing this. I was pretty quick to remind her that our employer had paid for the meal on our behalf and we were free to eat as much or as little as we wished. On the way out I complained to the manager who asked if we would like bags for what we had taken. No doubt the waitress intended to help herself to what was left as part of her perks!

So what s supposed to be done with products like fruit, cheese, cut meat, sandwiches etc which have a limited life? They can hardly be offered to other clients the next day.

Its not a good idea for a snippy little waitress to be telling off professional corporate clients whose employer has paid ££££ for the facilities they use. Regardless of what the part time staff think its not their place to comment.

So you’ve quoted your own earlier post, after which you had your arse handed to you, so that you can agree with yourself? You clearly still see no fault in your own conduct, do you?

And you think that waiting staff are inferior to you and shouldn’t ever challenge your behaviour even if you behave badly and contravene the hotel’s rules by loading up bags with takeaway food from the breakfast buffet?

‘Snippy little waitress’? Compared to you, the ‘professional corporate client’? Christ.

Snippy little waitress’? Compared to you, the ‘professional corporate client’? Christ.

Peasant know your place while the professional people be stealing.

It's just embarrassing to be caught stealing piddly little amounts of food you don't even need, and then involving the manager because the waiting staff rightly call you on it 🤦‍♀️
Have you no shame?

They charge £6 for cereal, because some people steal. They still have to cover the costs.

It’s not just the price of the food you pay for when you dine out. You pay staff wages, including the staff who clean the toilets and sinks you used. The hotel has to buy the table, chairs, plates etc, pay for gas water, electricity, carpets.

YABVVU. and you’re a thief.

@Jux - all this discussion- it's really interesting isn't it! It's the difference between morality and the law.

My rationale was as follows:
I paid £6 for a continental buffet breakfast. The average mark up on a restaurant meal is 70%. That would mean they make £4.20 of the £6 and allow £1.80 for costs.

I appreciate that part of costs includes overheads, but that's generally not more than 10-20% (18-36 pence). That means that the least they allow for food costs is £1.44.

Given that, I think one box of cereal, a small amount of milk, a crumpet and six portions of Nutella and/or jam is within cost. What have I stolen? The hotel still makes it's profit.

If I were heading home (where I already have jam and Nutella then I wouldn't have taken them.
Likewise if it were an independent hotel/restaurant I wouldn't have taken them.

It's probably morally dubious but I fail to see that it's stealing.

So, as long as I make sufficient purchases at the supermarket to ensure they make a profit from me, I can help myself to anything else I fancy, provided the value of the items I don't pay for doesn't exceed the amount of profit they make from my other purchases? Or, unless I cause an actual loss, its not theft? I don't have a strong moral stance on this really, but think your logic is flawed.

It's probably morally dubious but I fail to see that it's stealing

Sorry op, but you stole 12 sachets, you didn’t take a fair amount, you stole handfuls. Nothing morally dubious here. You felt entitled enough to steal because you spent £30 on breakfast for 4, might I suggest a McDonald’s breakfast in future. It’s more your price bracket and it means I will not have to have breakfast with you.

You may think you’re justified, but you’ve got sticky fingers.

Wouldn't consider it To be a "crime" as such as we have taken the odd tomatoe sauce sachet away with
us, As have seen the odd person take a bread roll + add a slice of cheese/ham To take away for their lunch.

That update has somehow made it worse, OP.

Like someone else said, you don't get to take extras at the supermarket because you feel they've already made enough profit from you.

@cariadlet

I'd say that strictly speaking it's stealing but you ripped them off far less than they ripped you off so morally justifiable stealing.

Morally justifiable? Nobody forced the OP to pay £6 for cereal. She freely and knowingly chose to do so.

Petrol stations charge way more for a bag of sweets than a supermarket; does that entitle you to pay for one bag but take two?

what is a reasonable size portion of breakfast to take from a buffet? Some years ago we were staying in a Las Vegas hotel. When we went in for breakfast we were gobsmacked to see the following: (and this is true) a person took two dinner plates from the hot service and loaded one up with streaky bacon, the other with sausages, mushrooms, tomatoes. He went back to his table then returned to get 2 more plates - on which he piled high waffles, fried potatoes, toast. 2 more plates/bowls for cereal and fruit salad, A couple of jugs of maple syrup later, and a plate with brioche, croissants, donuts. We sat mesmerised, waiting for the rest of his family to appear. No! This was all for him. He'd paid for a buffet breakfast - so what's your view? Was he stealing? Was he entitled?

If he ate it all, whilst he was sitting in the restaurant, he wasn’t stealing. He’d fulfilled his end of the deal: pay £x, eat all you can whilst sitting in the restaurant.

If he’d taken away food for later, he would have been stealing. He’d broken the terms of the contract, which were, eat all you can whilst you are sitting here, in our restaurant, today, on one discrete occasion. Not ‘fill your boots with food for the next week at our expense’. See?

Years ago, in my early twenties, I was on a fairly budget trip to Majorca with friends. Every morning, when we left the hotel buffet breakfast (which wasn’t all that!) the staff would search every guest’s bags. Every one, every day. We were amazed that anyone would want to take food away, but now I know why the staff were so vigilant. Guests like the OP and the other people on this thread, all muttering that they’ve PAID FOR THIS and the hotel EXPECTS IT and forming their own ill-informed opinions on how much profit the hotel should be allowed to make.

@Iamthewombat

Years ago, in my early twenties, I was on a fairly budget trip to Majorca with friends. Every morning, when we left the hotel buffet breakfast (which wasn’t all that!) the staff would search every guest’s bags. Every one, every day. We were amazed that anyone would want to take food away, but now I know why the staff were so vigilant. Guests like the OP and the other people on this thread, all muttering that they’ve PAID FOR THIS and the hotel EXPECTS IT and forming their own ill-informed opinions on how much profit the hotel should be allowed to make.

@Iamthewombat Was this the hotel lagomonte in 1992? 🤣

£30 for 2 adults and 2 children to have breakfast doesn't sound overly expensive to me. Presumably you also had tea or coffee/juice plus milk for the cereal?

However, I don't feel it is particularly scandalous for you to take a few portions of Nutella and jam. I certainly wouldn't see it as a case for deportation.

There far more "morally dubious", yet very often apparently perfectly legal, actions carried out each day by people in high places - sometimes running into the millions - and I find it incredible that people can get so steamed up about this minor infringement.

ellyeth - Perhaps you could consider the reason for the high cost for this breakfast! Whether there are morrally dubious actions carried out by people in high places - Two wrongs do not make a right. This lady stole and did so in front of her children who will no doubt consider taking items to be "ok" if you have paid what is considered excessive for something. Quite frankly I am bewildered by the number of people who found her actions acceptable in the circumstances. No wonder prices are so high these days.

Oh dear. My explanation does seem to have made things worse.

I must say I am shocked that people feel quite so strongly about it; but point taken, it is thought of as stealing and I will hand myself in at the nearest police station on Monday 👮🏻

You've worked so hard to convince yourself and everyone else that you were justified in pocketing some flaming condiments, op.
To the point of costing the individual elements of the meals on offer and estimating the hotel's supposed profit.
Have some dignity...