To be furious with the way social care is(n't) run in this country?

[shallIswim]

I know I know I should have gotten angry about this before it affected me but... Mother has had severe stroke and is marooned in a community hospital in the back of beyond because there are no carers. None. Not in the community, not in nursing homes. The hospital is embarrassed. I'm quietly seething that a woman who has paid taxes all her life (forgive the cliche) has been left like this. There are no physios in the hospital so she is getting no rehab. I don't blame the hospital or any of the care agencies or companies. But I am raging with impotence.
Father is being cared for full time at home by a good private agency (we are paying) but even they cannot supply anyone.
The lady in the neighbouring bed to mother is way better than she is but has been waiting since early July for a care package to go home to.
What kind of place are we living in?
I do blame Brexit in part but don't want this to be a debate abut Brexit.
What can we do? It's AWFUL and inhumane

as @Cooper88 explains so well it's a double handed job so effectively 8 carers a day.
many of our local nursing homes are shutting up shop to new admissions anyway because of another covid wave so we're in a perfect storm: Brexit, low pay attracting few carers, and covid. And probably much else besides.

@JoborPlay yup. That's what I'm trying cack-handedly to explain! It matters not if you have the money... the carers aren't available in any setting or format. And frankly having the money shouldn't fast track you: everyone should be entitled to dignified care in their old age

Oh god we should pay MUCH more tax, our tax rates are the lowest in Europe. Of course we can afford it if we choose to

I don’t think individual families should pay more income tax. Businesses yes. But imagine you work hard, get a promotion and suddenly 40% of your income is taken in tax, leaving you worse off than before! Or 45% over a certain amount. And it’s based on individual income not family income, so you could have a husband and wife better off for both earning just under the tax threshold than one main earner being a higher rate tax payer, trying to support the family on that one heavily taxed income!

It makes me really cross when people suggest ‘tax the higher earners more’ like it’s a magic solution. Most higher rate tax payers I know don’t splash out on luxury items, they save and invest wisely.

The NHS is barely fit for purpose so although we pay into it, few of us rely on it or use it. Waiting lists are so long even to see a GP (let alone a consultant) people who can afford to usually go private.

Social care isn’t much better. Under staffed, workers underpaid, private care agencies and homes making a profit.

I did care work as a student; never again. I found it physically and emotionally exhausting, not worth the pay. Dealing with bodily fluids, scrubbing out commode buckets, mopping floors all night, back breaking work.

If the hospital OT has recommended certain adaptations or equipment they can take weeks to arrive and be fitted. If social services recommends a package of care it takes weeks to secure funding (means assessed) and to get that package in place takes even longer. One way to speed it up would be for a relative to take over sourcing private carers, but then they’d have to monitor them and manage the budget.

Sadly the whole social care system is desperately understaffed, hard to recruit to and hard to retain staff. So yes discharges get delayed, but I wouldn’t blame social services when they’re on their knees.

I don’t think individual families should pay more income tax. Businesses yes. But imagine you work hard, get a promotion and suddenly 40% of your income is taken in tax, leaving you worse off than before

Why would we imagine that, when that is not how tax works!! IF you get that promotion, 40% of your income in that bracket goes to tax, not 40% of your entire income. Huge difference. And it's only fair and right that it does so.

Hi, I'm a manager in homecare - the problem at the moment is recruitment and retention. We have tried absolutely everything we possibly can, pay well above the usual minimum wage including paying 18-24 year olds the same as everybody else! People either don't want to work in care or don't want to work! On top of that carers are going off at the drop of a hat - now if they have been pinged they can still work providing a negative PCR test but some test results have taken 5-6 days to come back. It's a shambles. The work home carers have done during this pandemic has been forgotten - they too have been front lines just like NHS and care homes. We are currently struggling with the clients we already have due to staffing never mind being able to take more, it's heartbreaking and we are really at a loss as to what to try next

@shallswim yes, it’s an awful situation but having money gives you options.
If you can offer better working conditions than local care agencies then employing a small team of people to care for both of your parents directly might be the only way of getting your mum out of hospital.
I work in the community for the NHS and even those with existing care packages often get calls at short notice to say that the agency have no one available to provide certain calls. Many patients get discharged to places that are not of their or their families choosing simply because the hospital beds are needed and this is the only option.
The expectation to have care provided for free in a place and at times of your choosing is a dim and distant memory unfortunately.
Have you contacted the hospital’s discharge liaison team or your mum’s social worker for updates? They must be tearing their hair out at such long delays to discharge.

@Cooper88

The problem you face here with potentially having carers come in to care for your dm (i work as a dom carer and also do the rotas for my company so know.this very well) is that your dm is a double up. So you the company need to have 2x carers 4x a day. So say a company has 8x runs am and pm they need to find 2 runs 4x a day that has a space at the same time to then have the carers meet and do the visit. Then if the visit runs over, which double ups are very likely to do they then have the knock on effect for the rest of the day/night. This makes it a hell.of a.lot harder to do for a company on top of the staffing issues that all care companies seem to be facing as well.

Completely hit the nail on the head! It's so frustrating. We want to help more but our hands are tied - social services don't pay us enough to be increase staff wages even more then we have so we run at not much profit at all to ensure our carers get an above sector rate of pay. We ensure they have proper breaks and travel fines between clients. We map everything out to ensure they aren't travelling more then a few streets away and are in the same area all shift - a lot of care agencies do none of this but we are still struggling. 2 applicants in a month! Also I think there are still people who don't want the vax so won't look at working in care either!

On top of the ridiculous amounts of income tax higher earners pay? Isn’t having almost half your salary taken away in tax enough?

Most people pay basic tax rates, many pay no tax at all as their incomes don’t meet the threshold.

Why punish middle and higher earners by expecting them to pay yet more tax on their hard earned incomes?

Everything about this post, but especially the last paragraph, shows exactly why we desperately need tough wealth redistribution policies to be put in place ASAP.

The government could stop a lot of waste like throwing money at Stonewall but no funding an organisation that wants to take away women’s spaces is more important than giving councils money to care for people.

I work in ASC for an LA with a very rural area. Some care calls are 15 minutes driving time apart. It's a nightmare for Providers, especially as we (the LA) just can't afford to pay any higher. We have cut services to the bone already. And some of the cuts are to non-statutory preventative services which often save money in the longterm by supporting people to remain independent.

Everything about this post, but especially the last paragraph, shows exactly why we desperately need tough wealth redistribution policies to be put in place ASAP

Wealth redistribution policies? Then where is the motivation to study for years for a high earning profession, continue studying and paying to sit exams whilst working, clawing your way up the pay scales only to have more and more of your income taken in tax?

@StrangeToSee

Everything about this post, but especially the last paragraph, shows exactly why we desperately need tough wealth redistribution policies to be put in place ASAP

Wealth redistribution policies? Then where is the motivation to study for years for a high earning profession, continue studying and paying to sit exams whilst working, clawing your way up the pay scales only to have more and more of your income taken in tax?

These are things my parents did. Worked hard; employed hundreds of people; saved. And all the money in the world cannot secure my mother care outside hospital that is fit for purpose. My dad already has full time care at home and we're hanging on to that gem of a carer for dear life. Please don't think wealth will insulate you.

I understand how you feel, I worked in social care

The social care system has been underfunded for decades

Wealth will make no difference because there are not enough carers

People do not realise until it affects them and their family

No one cares until then

People do not want to pay more tax and so it continues

Care needs to be valued

Well funded

We need root and branch reform agreed by ALL political parties

Care is expensive and should be valued like nurses were during the pandemic

I would pay more tax. I do not want to see others go through this.
5 years ago my MiL was in a similar
Position and the problem wasn't anywhere near as acute.

Said on the news tonight 1000 carer vacancies in North Yorkshire alone!

Fairyliz clean and fed is such a low bar - its not considered acceptable any more.

Adult social care has vastly better pay and consitions in some EU countries. Anyone with proper qualifications should consider learning German if they want to double their pay and improve their working conditions...

It's still not perfect here, especially for carers visiting elderly care users in their own homes and the users of that type of care, because they are so rushed (as they are in the UK) with too short time slots, but no carer I've come across uses their own car - they're provided - nor pays for their own training (unless self employed of course).

A fully qualified full time carer can expect 36k € gross basic plus various allowances (there's a tariff plan so everyone knows what they should be paid, its transparent like nurses and teachers pay, and the geriatric and adult social care qualifications are comparable to nursing qualifications, same duration, hefty exams for state registration) in Germany.

We pay a shed load more in tax and other compulsory deductions though. Separate from income tax is 15.5% state health insurance plus separate state care insurance plus compulsory state unemployment insurance, then obviously compulsory state pension insurance. The equivalent of NI is multiple times more.

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

If you want prepare to be a carer why should anyone else

I'm not sure where you expect all these people to come from who want to be carers

I also don't know no who you expect to pay for it

Your mother might have paid taxes all her life but I'm sure we can do the calculations she's taken out a lot more than she put in

People need to start saving up to pay for their own Care not relying on everyone else

We also need to change the law said that people who don't want to be cared for can end their life

I don't want to go into into a care home if I can't look after myself but at the moment I don't have any choice

It's a good point. I earn my money and pay my taxes in other ways. I guess I now understand that I'd happily pay a little more in order that those who do the work we don't want to do (and I know that mum does not want me to be doing her personal care any more than I want to be doing it) are paid decently and more are encouraged to join their ranks.

@StrangeToSee

We need a specific tax everyone over 40 pays towards their later life care. Everyone.

On top of the ridiculous amounts of income tax higher earners pay? Isn’t having almost half your salary taken away in tax enough?

Most people pay basic tax rates, many pay no tax at all as their incomes don’t meet the threshold.

Why punish middle and higher earners by expecting them to pay yet more tax on their hard earned incomes?

‘Ridiculous amounts of income tax’? Lol, piss off.

@StrangeToSee

Everything about this post, but especially the last paragraph, shows exactly why we desperately need tough wealth redistribution policies to be put in place ASAP

Wealth redistribution policies? Then where is the motivation to study for years for a high earning profession, continue studying and paying to sit exams whilst working, clawing your way up the pay scales only to have more and more of your income taken in tax?

Because you can still earn a fucking fortune and far more than most people can dream of, but you have to contribute more to the pot.

@Starlightstarbright1

Yabu once you blame brexit. Social care has been highly underfunded sincevway before brexit.

Serious lack of care staff is down to Brexit. You may not like it, but tough. Them's the facts. Funding was tight but you could usually find personnel, most of whom were from Eastern Europe. Again, you probably don't like that fact, but there it is.

Unfortunately people do not get that there is a problem until it affects them, why would you?

It needs to be discussed in parliament and action taken

Care agencies do not get paid enough to pay carers enough

Care is not seen as a valuable career

As a society we need to care for those most vulnerable but we do not and people don't get it until they are affected

I understand why you would not want to care for your Mum, or indeed why she may not want you too, especially personal care

No simple answers and I sympathise

Have you tried advertising privately and paying more?

Or a live in carer maybe?

Apologies if you have mentioned this in your post

I used to work in care. It's been heading that way for well over a decade. Years ago you could train into nursing on the job. You got paid time and a half for working bank holidays or night shifts and permanent jobs. All that was taken away. Who wants a dead end job where greedy owners cash in on you working Xmas day for minimum wage? It's back breaking work, literally. It can cause lifelong issues for people. And it was entirely predictable that there would be huge staff shortages following Brexit.

Also, the migrants just in my area do the better paid factory jobs and have not been involved in the care sector so Brexit hasn’t affected my area but the sheer number of older people buying homes in isolated rural areas when they are healthy but 5-10 years down the line are finding that they can’t get carers to come to them as the property is so rural it just doesn’t pay to take their care on.

As my mum can make a sandwich and can take herself to the loo , she doesn't qualify for care.
She cannot shower or bathe herself but can stand, with a frame , in front of the sink and try to flannel herself.
She can't wash her feet.
She qualifies for financial assistance but not any care.
She has to fund her own care which costs around £25 an hour and eats into her basic state pension as it costs more than her allowance.

The system is broken.