To be furious with the way social care is(n't) run in this country?

[shallIswim]

I know I know I should have gotten angry about this before it affected me but... Mother has had severe stroke and is marooned in a community hospital in the back of beyond because there are no carers. None. Not in the community, not in nursing homes. The hospital is embarrassed. I'm quietly seething that a woman who has paid taxes all her life (forgive the cliche) has been left like this. There are no physios in the hospital so she is getting no rehab. I don't blame the hospital or any of the care agencies or companies. But I am raging with impotence.
Father is being cared for full time at home by a good private agency (we are paying) but even they cannot supply anyone.
The lady in the neighbouring bed to mother is way better than she is but has been waiting since early July for a care package to go home to.
What kind of place are we living in?
I do blame Brexit in part but don't want this to be a debate abut Brexit.
What can we do? It's AWFUL and inhumane

It was bad enough before, but yes, Brexit has made it worse. Because there were shortages even before we cut off one of the ways in which people entered the sector. And this won't be popular, but the vaccination requirements won't help either. It may or may not be relevant in this specific instance, but we know it's driving some care sector workers away and deterring other people from entering the sector.

The whole system is a mess.

It won't help you now OP but maybe write to your MP?

We need a specific tax everyone over 40 pays towards their later life care. Everyone.

On top of the ridiculous amounts of income tax higher earners pay? Isn’t having almost half your salary taken away in tax enough?

Most people pay basic tax rates, many pay no tax at all as their incomes don’t meet the threshold.

Why punish middle and higher earners by expecting them to pay yet more tax on their hard earned incomes?

We need to close the ridiculous tax loopholes and make businesses pay proper tax and proper wages.

All these big companies posting massive profits but paying minuscule wages where people have to claim in-work benefits to survive are effectively being subsidised by the state.

Thar would be a good start.

Oh god we should pay MUCH more tax, our tax rates are the lowest in Europe.

Of course we can afford it if we choose to.

If people weren't feeling so bloody entitled to spending 10k on holidays when they earn 100k maybe the environment would do better too.

Dh is a teacher. He earns £79k, takes home £4,300 every month. We're not bothered about holidays abroad for the obvious environmental reasons - yeah we could afford to pay £500 extra every month in tax.

We don't want or care about a bigger property, our flat is fine.

Honestly where we live (London) we're the poorest people we know.

Of course the middle and higher earners can afford more tax.

And carers should be paid LONDON LIVING WAGE here - £18 an hour (I think)

The whole way we run shit is a disgrace

On top of the ridiculous amounts of income tax higher earners pay? Isn’t having almost half your salary taken away in tax enough?

That's not how tax works, and higher earners don't pay ridiculous amounts of tax.

A relative works in social care. It seems that even when there is money, there are insufficient carers at the moment. But the carers there are seem to be poorly treated and poorly paid so it's not an attractive job option.

No one pays 50% of their salary in income tax for heaven's sake. You pay 40% on income over 50k which is very much not the same thing. Very low earners may not pay income tax but as a proportion of their income they pay a phenomenal amount of VAT and council tax. So it's not as though they're getting a freebie by having care provided in their old age. Would it make you feel any better if we evened things out so the care workers get a fair share of the care company's profits and then everyone gets paid the same and pays the same amount of tax? No?

Either care work is paid enough that people are willing to do it for a long term career or we all accept that we're going to have to give up work in our 40s and 50s to care for our elderly parents and for our kids to do the same for us. Personally I'd rather pay a bit more tax.

As an adult social worker I can assure you that we are just as unhappy as clients/ families are at the lack of care available. We do not employ the carers nor run the companies and can only offer what we can find. The problem is just how poorly carers are paid and treated. It has meant a serious lack of uptake in jobs within the care market which is understandable. It's a hard job to do for peanuts.

I think it varies between areas. My mother has been in a similar position but the did get home with a care package of 4 visits per day fairly quickly. And those visits are continuing and paid for by social services

They have also said they will get double handed care if necessary.

So perhaps we were just lucky .

The problem is you can't just target income tax as that doesn't actually target wealth. Also income taxes have been increased by stealth in the last budget.

Dh is a teacher. He earns £79k, takes home £4,300 every month.

His pension payments should be much higher?

When my grandmother needed proper help we just employed someone full time to look after her, like you would a nanny for a child. We did the same when my father was dying. Paid a proper wage and said person also did housework etc and was a great help. To be honest this is what people who can afford it do in my home country too (Switzerland). Homes there are amazing but so expensive if you are well off (proportion of assets/earnings although it differs per region/canton) so that it is cheaper to hire someone yourself or share with another local
family. I don’t understand why people here think the state should pay for everything when you are relatively well off/have plenty of assets.
If you offer a decent wage and advertise you might find someone great (if you can afford it).

If you can find carers, could you get direct payments and employ them yourselves? You could do it for both parents. By offering better rates of pay, no travelling between jobs, no uniform needed etc it might be an attractive option for the right people.

@Muchtoomuchtodo

If you can find carers, could you get direct payments and employ them yourselves? You could do it for both parents. By offering better rates of pay, no travelling between jobs, no uniform needed etc it might be an attractive option for the right people.

This sounds like an easy solution but it isn't. Using a company means once you do have carers and are locked in they must find replacements so those carers can take breaks. Otherwise yiu spend you life trying to plug gaps. I know this because we tried!

What can we do? Stop voting Tory. Expect care companies who make huge profits pay living wages and treat their staff like valued humans rather than hamsters on a treadmill. Keep demanding our MPs tell us why they think this is ok and what they plan to do about it.

When care was moved into the community no one really complained. People were cared for by nurses in the NHS and carers in the community. When councils contracted out their care services no one really complained. Pay, conditions were ground down by councils wanting more for less. No support, no time, unsafe working conditions (Uncontrolled dogs eating peoples farces off the bed / drunk and unreasonable family members / abusive clients / remote rural areas up forest tracks / no lighting to name a few memories from my experience)
No one wants their child to become a carer, much better to encourage our children to go to university for three years to end up in Starbucks. So many older people needing care. Rural areas particularly bad because the young leave for jobs and Escape to the Country encourages older people to move to remote properties without any support. Honestly, It’s not Brexit, it’s 30 years of neglect of social care by successive governments. We are beyond breaking point and have been for years.

In the short term - not much I think. It is tragic. Until you are in that situation (I was with mum last year) it is hard to credit how bad it is.

The problem you face here with potentially having carers come in to care for your dm (i work as a dom carer and also do the rotas for my company so know.this very well) is that your dm is a double up. So you the company need to have 2x carers 4x a day. So say a company has 8x runs am and pm they need to find 2 runs 4x a day that has a space at the same time to then have the carers meet and do the visit. Then if the visit runs over, which double ups are very likely to do they then have the knock on effect for the rest of the day/night. This makes it a hell.of a.lot harder to do for a company on top of the staffing issues that all care companies seem to be facing as well.

I think there is a lot of scope for employers to improve their terms and conditions to encourage people to come into care. There seems to be an attitude in care that you have to be available 24/7 but willing to accept low or zero hour contracts. It is no surprise then that many don't stick around as they can secure more family friendly/less anti social hours work with guaranteed hours. Also it is preferred that you are willing to work as many hours as the employer asks for (despite a low hours contract).

I don't know why there is such reluctance for fixed hours part time working for example. Retail or hospitality which are also often a 24/7 services seem more willing to give people fixed days, have weekend staff/employ students.

Despite a huge shortage of staff and plenty of staff that would prefer not to work weekends or evenings I don't have much confidence that a person approaching an employer for saturday/sunday work or evening work (to manage childcare around a partner with a 9-5 job) would be snapped up. I think in many cases they would be told they need people that are available all the time.

If employers are struggling to recruit as well as pay they should look at what else they can do to improve terms and conditions such as offering fixed hours part time contracts.

It is awful seeing a loved one without adequate care.
Brexit encouraged lots of care staff to move on, the training is intense and the working conditions aren't great.
Once it is recognised as a valued position.
I laughed once on MN a pp said "Well it isn't our DC who work in those roles" on a thread about Brexit.
I see a lot of people from my area working class people taking on the job with pride.
Unfortunately folk look down at carers and when you earn similar in a store it becomes more attractive.

Care work is difficult, poorly paid and usually long hours.

A friend is in a care facility for people with aquired brain injuries, when vacancies come up it reveals that carers are on the NMW. These carers work 12 hour shifts, they’re providing vital medical and personal care. They’d be better paid on a till in a supermarket, which is criminal when you consider the skills and qualifcations required.

You could look at Direct Payments and employing someone directly and also into single handed care equipment to make care with one carer safe.

The things / work that carers do is really quite skilled and carers are often really dedicated and caring people so pay should reflect the skills that are needed.

@StrangeToSee

We need a specific tax everyone over 40 pays towards their later life care. Everyone.

On top of the ridiculous amounts of income tax higher earners pay? Isn’t having almost half your salary taken away in tax enough?

Most people pay basic tax rates, many pay no tax at all as their incomes don’t meet the threshold.

Why punish middle and higher earners by expecting them to pay yet more tax on their hard earned incomes?

Because we need to fund social care more appropriately!

And it isn't half my income, it's half above a certain threshold. So yes, if I get a pay rise, half of that is tax but so what? I can afford it and it benefits the greater good.

Social care is dreadfully under resourced. Last year one local authority had a £6.4million over spend- that's the social bill costing £6.4 million more than they received via taxation AND those who paid something towards the care provided. We need to pay more tax. We need to pay carers better. We need to be more welcoming to the large swathe of foreign nationals prepared to do the care jobs.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

You could look at Direct Payments and employing someone directly and also into single handed care equipment to make care with one carer safe.

The OPs mum is self funding. She still can't find care. It's the same in my local authority, there are no carers. It doesn't matter who is paying, there's no one to do the job.