Where will the refugees coming to the UK live?

[Meeklynamechanged]

In no way a goady thread, I fully support helping the people fleeing such horrid circumstances, but genuine question.. where will they live? Where do we put people?

Where I live we have people waiting 10 years for a council property. Most areas around the UK have a huge deficit in available housing that doesn't meet demand.

With so many families stuck in overcrowded hostels and B&B's, families of 5 in 1 bed flats, I can't see where all of the required the housing will come from?

I don’t think you’d understand if I tried.

@Audit : But the wider UK political trend is to turning away from politically elite socialists. The Labour party as we understood it is now finished in the UK. Any party that successfully takes on the Conservatives will be positioned further right than we could imagine.

The UK has taken a horrible swing to the right. The lack of humanity and the right-wing tropes posted and disseminated as fact would have been socially unacceptable before the Tories were elected into power. Their dog-whistling and encouragement of these vile attitudes is appalling to witness.

It does make it so easy to see how The Holocaust could happen, though. Persuade enough people to view other human beings as scrounging and undeserving, and it gets easier to mistreat those people. Persuade your electorate to blame each other, or the weak and vulnerable, for whatever their problems are (especially if your government created those problems, or made them worse by cutting the funding to everything except their own pockets).

This is where a decade of that leads us. People making excuses and finding reasons why we as a country can't/shouldn't help anyone who needs help.

This thread is full of communists
Yes, isn’t it wonderful?

I didn’t see this coming, I thought the next bun-fight would be about the environment. Something like vegan recyclers vs mass consumers etc
Don’t worry, we’ve got that too - I invite you to the legitimately insane lunchbox thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4322928-new-school-bag-and-lunchbox-every-september

Where will we put all of the British babies who are being born?
I’d recommend a bedside crib next to you for the first six months, but not sure how that’s relevant here.

@Blossomtoes I knew you wouldn't be able to!

Full Fact on child refugees who turned out to be over 18:

fullfact.org/immigration/how-many-child-asylum-seekers-are-found-be-adults/

Depressing that the “it’s all the thickos who vote Tory who are responsible for the shitty state the country are in” mob is out in force. Despite historic levels of underfunding, no other party has a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected. Telling people that it’s all their fault everything is shit because they voted Tory is not going to win elections or change anything - in fact, I can’t see a more sure fire way to ensure the country lurches even further right.

We need to discuss things like this. We need to listen to people and address their concerns, real or perceived. And the left wing have spectacularly failed to listen to people- about immigration, about sex based right and the list goes on.

WRT immigration being a net benefit, I thought that had not been shown to be the case? It’s difficult to get an accurate answer given the government didn’t actually know how many EU immigrants were here…

I know a little about this....the whole asylum seeker/ refugee thing. It is an utter, utter nightmare for people who are traumatised and may have poor English.

Imagine the most frustrating attempt you have made to arrange utlities or a phone contract and mulitply it by a thousand.

I have a friend who for more than a decade has used her two spare rooms (she otherwise lives by herself) to house, for free, refugee and asylum-seeking women. It isn't always easy, but she has found it very fulfilling and worthwhile. (She's on a very modest wage, but she earns enough not to need to top it up with lodger money.)

It helps, of course, if you are used to shared houses, or if you've had lodgers before - as so many of us have. (Which ironically means people on lower incomes are more likely to open their houses to refugees, as they've had their own experiences of shared living, and aren't frightened of the "share with a STRANGER????!!!!" thing. And people who have always had the money to have their own sealed household are less likely.)

But people offering spare rooms isn't enough. There will have to be a government response, which will treat everyone - residents and refugees alike - with fairness. (I am not confident our government knows what fairness is, TBH.)

I don't think lone women are required to take in Afghan males of fighting age are they?

I ashamed to admit I have had bad thoughts and been afraid of young male refugees. How foolish....it turns out they are just like you and me and our famiies.

I wouldn't take in a lodger - free or paid - who was male, of any nationality. But refugees aren't all male. (And I don't have a spare room in any case!)

3 days ago: how horrific the situation in Afghanistan is and how can we standby and let innocent civilians did at the hands of the Taliban? What can we do to help?

3 days later: 20,000 Afghanis heading this way.......NIMBY.

@wordsareveryunnecessary

Sensitive topic. I have members of my family waiting for housing and immigrants have been housed before them. There is also a shortage of flats for pensioners for the same reason.. We are "City of refuge" and the people who have lived here and paid their taxes are now waiting a lot longer

It is a sensitive issue. It's why councils put out a call for new stock or - as they did in some areas - decided to house asylum seekers in private rentals only. That's with expanded funding. So you should not see an effect on current waiting lists, but that's not easily communicated. Meanwhile, the calls for new stock and spare rooms naturally give the impression that we have "run out" of council accommodation because of asylum seekers, when in fact they are made to avoid any effect on council lists. A tough situation, and I think we could all agree that it would be more easily handled if social housing policy was better designed and funded .

We have 18m more people in the UK than when I was born and I preferred it when it was quieter (if if that would mean less money). My London borough which is minority white has the most "beds in sheds" of any London borough and that seems to be where some illegal immigrants have lived in the last 20 years.

I would certainly like to pay less tax however so if my income tax bills could be reduced by two thirds because new entrants are paying so much tax to the Government that would be very good news.

I would like to answer some of this from my perspective of dealing with homeless families.
Firstly, yes poverty plays a part because it gives a person no choice in what they do. There are huge numbers of people who will never own a home, so what do they do? Well, many will privately rent ; but eventually they either need something more affordable, or something that is not readily available to rent privately (level access shower for example) or they just get fed up with being given notice every so often, having to scrape a deposit together and all the upheaval of moving. I have truly met families who have moved every year or 18 months and just can't stand the thought of it again. So, they apply to the local authority for help, they present as homeless as the landlord has a PO. If they live in a borough with little social housing, they then risk being shunted off to another cheaper borough, often miles from their extended families. And then come other issues, if the adult/s work what about their jobs? Quite often they are shunted so far away that there is no chance of remaining in that employment, they are given minimal time to move so no chance of looking before they go. they often end up in an area that they have never so much as been to before, no support network, no job, no school for the kids. Yes, they have a roof over their heads, but a lot of other non-tangible things are lost. Then, there is the effect on the receiving borough. They now have to find school places, some families have complex needs and those will have to be addressed by that borough. In addition, landlords will realize that they can ask for silly deposits, as the first borough is willing to pay to off load the problem of having too many homeless families onto another borough. So that just causes problems with people who are already in the receiving borough, as they can't match the deposit.
It doesn't actually resolve any issue, does it? The problems are moved elsewhere, and it's 'out of sight, out of mind'.
I'm sorry, but I have worked for too long dealing with issues like this; the bottom line is that if we want social housing to exist, then we do this. We stop the RTB, nice for those who do it, but it just means that desirable or bigger properties are sold and not replaced. Reform private rents. In the good old days, we had protected tenancies and tenants weren't given 2 months notice because the landlord wanted a higher rent. I'm sure that would not be popular with landlords, but it would mean that they would actually think about their responsibilities. I know that many of you will be landlords, please don't shoot me, I am talking about some I have met who really had no clue. As far as I am concerned, the whole system is broken, and we need to address those issues. A sticking plaster won't help.

I didn't mean to derail this thread, BTW, but I have seen at first hand the issues. I feel desperately sorry for the Afghan people, but more people coming to the UK and no extra money or resources just causes more problems. If the Government doesn't stump up oodles of cash to local authorities, it won't work.
(SORRY)

I think with immigration a lot of people think those people coming into this country via France are financial migrants rather than refugees given the lack of families and the predominance of men

I think what we have seen unfolding in Afghanistan and seeing the horror of what the Taliban stand which is so far against the freedoms we enjoy.
People do want to do something.

I am from what would be described as a refugee family. The house I had growing up was a 2bed 1boxroom house that was overcrowded and considered a slum
Despite leaving behind a nice house and business my father and grandparents were grateful to be alive and would have taken anywhere safe.
I would like to see predominantly women and children on these flights out as it is they who will suffer more under the Taliban regime.

Thanks, Dazzle; I was about to link that FullFact piece but see you beat me to it

TBF there are some caveats around the numbers - which is why I said there's "every chance" of ending up with a hulking 25 year old instead of stating it would happen - but the principle's well established

@ThymeafterThyme

FFS. They are human. Just like you aspire to be

I don't aspire to be human, I just am. Please let's try and have a sensible discussion. Would you want a man who is a stranger living in your house?

Clearly they don't mind as they've offered a room. If you mind, don't offer a room. Simple.

@Xenia Yo, words matter and “illegal immigrant” is pejorative and dehumanising. Applying for asylum is perfectly legal. Crossing a border without authorisation isn’t a criminal act.

Unfortunately most people at the bottom of societies' pile do not have the mental resources to care about someone coming here from the worlds troubled countries when keeping a roof over their own heads is all consuming. Foodbanks are widely accepted as necessary, kids need feeding during school holidays because parents don't have the means.

The money tree was shaken to provide for the pandemic .. after austerity was the buzz word for years..money isn't the issue, it can be found if needed, political will is the issue.

If there weren't long lists of homeless who were miraculously found accommodation for lockdown and inadequate housing stock for those needing more suitable homes then I think it would be less 'controversial' to accept refugees.

We need a mass social housing building programme. Dont forget that originally social housing was for aspirational workers not 'underclass', employment was a requirement. Paying landlords huge amounts in housing benefits for people to stay in overpriced rentals should be stopped. How many would off load investment properties if they couldn't charge more than local social housing rentals. Wages need addressing, if a companies employees need state top ups to be viable it needs to look at its operating model.

In other words, there would be less daily mail style anti refugees/ immigration sentiment when people already here are adequately housed and it isn't perceived that they will get more than those at the bottom of the chain already.

@LoislovesStewie

I would like to answer some of this from my perspective of dealing with homeless families. Firstly, yes poverty plays a part because it gives a person no choice in what they do. There are huge numbers of people who will never own a home, so what do they do? Well, many will privately rent ; but eventually they either need something more affordable, or something that is not readily available to rent privately (level access shower for example) or they just get fed up with being given notice every so often, having to scrape a deposit together and all the upheaval of moving. I have truly met families who have moved every year or 18 months and just can't stand the thought of it again. So, they apply to the local authority for help, they present as homeless as the landlord has a PO. If they live in a borough with little social housing, they then risk being shunted off to another cheaper borough, often miles from their extended families. And then come other issues, if the adult/s work what about their jobs? Quite often they are shunted so far away that there is no chance of remaining in that employment, they are given minimal time to move so no chance of looking before they go. they often end up in an area that they have never so much as been to before, no support network, no job, no school for the kids. Yes, they have a roof over their heads, but a lot of other non-tangible things are lost. Then, there is the effect on the receiving borough. They now have to find school places, some families have complex needs and those will have to be addressed by that borough. In addition, landlords will realize that they can ask for silly deposits, as the first borough is willing to pay to off load the problem of having too many homeless families onto another borough. So that just causes problems with people who are already in the receiving borough, as they can't match the deposit. It doesn't actually resolve any issue, does it? The problems are moved elsewhere, and it's 'out of sight, out of mind'. I'm sorry, but I have worked for too long dealing with issues like this; the bottom line is that if we want social housing to exist, then we do this. We stop the RTB, nice for those who do it, but it just means that desirable or bigger properties are sold and not replaced. Reform private rents. In the good old days, we had protected tenancies and tenants weren't given 2 months notice because the landlord wanted a higher rent. I'm sure that would not be popular with landlords, but it would mean that they would actually think about their responsibilities. I know that many of you will be landlords, please don't shoot me, I am talking about some I have met who really had no clue. As far as I am concerned, the whole system is broken, and we need to address those issues. A sticking plaster won't help. I didn't mean to derail this thread, BTW, but I have seen at first hand the issues. I feel desperately sorry for the Afghan people, but more people coming to the UK and no extra money or resources just causes more problems. If the Government doesn't stump up oodles of cash to local authorities, it won't work. (SORRY)

I agree with all that you have said. There are also those who can't private rent due to the fact alot of landlords will not take people on who are on benefits. Many years ago it was easier for people on benefits to private rent. Not anymore though. Alot of families are forced to go eviction route and its awful. I have had to do it twice.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

Full Fact on child refugees who turned out to be over 18:

fullfact.org/immigration/how-many-child-asylum-seekers-are-found-be-adults/

Depressing that the “it’s all the thickos who vote Tory who are responsible for the shitty state the country are in” mob is out in force. Despite historic levels of underfunding, no other party has a snowball’s chance in hell of being elected. Telling people that it’s all their fault everything is shit because they voted Tory is not going to win elections or change anything - in fact, I can’t see a more sure fire way to ensure the country lurches even further right.

We need to discuss things like this. We need to listen to people and address their concerns, real or perceived. And the left wing have spectacularly failed to listen to people- about immigration, about sex based right and the list goes on.

WRT immigration being a net benefit, I thought that had not been shown to be the case? It’s difficult to get an accurate answer given the government didn’t actually know how many EU immigrants were here…

Fullfact are mainy funded by Facebook. I wouldn't trust anyone funded by Mark Zuckerberg.

@ACPC
Refugees have been welcomed in places like Bute. There's a depopulation crisis in some Scottish Isles.

Indeed they were welcomed but many didn’t actually want to stay on such a small island that’s only accessible by an expensive ferry so most moved into the mainland.

@burritofan

I invite you to the legitimately insane lunchbox thread

[quote FreekStar2]@Blossomtoes I knew you wouldn't be able to![/quote]
That isn’t what I said. You’ve just proved my efforts would be entirely wasted.

@the80sweregreat

So now people are suggesting that ' second home owners' should give up their places to the homeless or a to a refugee? I think hell will freeze over first before that would happen ( i only have one small home for four by the way!) Some people on here do live in a parallel universe.

The person who suggested that was talking about the million pound empty homes in London, I don't think they were seriously suggesting those people give up their homes.

[quote FreekStar2]@Blossomtoes I knew you wouldn't be able to![/quote]
@FreekStar2 what are you about? First time buyers are pushed out by buy to let buyers because buy to letters often have larger deposits.

First time buyers also need a higher LTV than buy to letters.

Tightening rules for buy to letters makes it easier for first time buyers to buy a home.