What's the alternative to Afghanistan situation?

[afghanistanwhatnow]

NC as don't want this linked to other posts - have a feeling I'll get flamed as I have little knowledge about politics so sorry in advance!

I've read quite a lot about this situation but what I'm struggling to understand is what else could have been done? Every news article and news piece talks about the tragedy (and I agree it's tragic) but not once have a I heard any viable solutions - only criticism of the government.

I'm genuinely interested to know what solutions Biden may have had to this situation and chose to ignore?

We cannot stay in Afghan forever - and then where do you draw the line? How many other countries should we help to this extent (as there are many other corrupt/terror threat countries too)

What's the alternative?

I'll be honest, I have no idea either. Having said that I think we should never have poked the hornets nest originally but as none of us are privy to the full picture I doubt we'll be able to recommend a course of action either way.

I'm glad it's not just me that's confused then? I just don't know why people loan so much about problems that they have no suggestions on how to fix? It just feels like people always want to criticise or blame others these days it's quite sad really.

I'll look forward to some more responses as really genuinely would like to hear a solution - and I agree probably shouldn't have interfered in the first place but still don't know why Biden is getting so much stick for that?

I don't know what the solution IS but I know what it WASN'T: abruptly concluding the leaving process immediately last week. That was fucking stupid.

They shouldn't have initiated such a sudden withdrawal of troops without first helping the local people / government get into a position where they would be strong enough to prevent a taliban resurgence.

To me the tragedy is going into a country - removing a power structure that already exists, staying in the country for a generation without improving the situation then suddenly leaving without providing a working way forward with structures and laws / policies in place to help the country. They're now suffering a resurgence that could end up worse than the original situation!

@PicsInRed so should it have been more gradual you think? I'd agree with that - also I don't know why it was so abrupt.

There must be so much more to this situation that is normal folk will never know, sadly

@PickleAF ok that makes sense - so the lack of effort to make and rebuild the country properly basically.

It's almost as though the taliban were literally waiting in the wings - that picture of them in the presidents office was just very sad and quite creepy

I don't know.
As for 'poking the hornets nest' frankly I don't know what should have been done there either. We have to remember the Taliban sheltered and enabled terrorist groups when last in power.

To me the tragedy is going into a country - removing a power structure that already exists, staying in the country for a generation without improving the situation then suddenly leaving without providing a working way forward with structures and laws / policies in place to help the country. They're now suffering a resurgence that could end up worse than the original situation!

Agree. And I don't have a problem with people complaining about that. It's unethical what our country has done and lots of us are upset about that.

I don’t think there is one.

As much as people are saying that it’s a tragedy, the reality is that the majority of people want the Taliban in force.

We haven’t really changed anything, the fact that they were able to take over the whole country within weeks of us having withdrawn is very clear evidence that they were never really away from power, and that the majority of people want it that way.

It’s very easy for us to sit here and say that surely nobody wants to live like that, based on what we personally feel. But you simply can’t apply western structure and thinking to a country which has been tribal for hundreds of years.

The army have just rolled over and given power to the Taliban, and the majority of them have joined up.

We spend too much time trying to bring western democracy into countries which don’t really want the change.

I think our top priority now should be getting as many people as humanly possible out of Afghanistan to safety. Top priority given to women and those who worked for or help the foreign forces.

@afghanistanwhatnow

The Taliban definitely sat in the wings waiting - they never got fully "eradicated". It's horrible to think of all of the soldiers who lost their lives in the country and now this is happening. So much rebuilding was needed and didn't take place. I'm not sure how now, this can be fixed.

[quote afghanistanwhatnow]@PicsInRed so should it have been more gradual you think? I'd agree with that - also I don't know why it was so abrupt.

There must be so much more to this situation that is normal folk will never know, sadly [/quote]
Yes, exactly.

We, the West, still have troops in Japan, South Korea, Philippines (I think?), Australia (US), Germany etc, as deterrent from our "not friends" as much as anything else.

As someone from the South Pacific, I truly chill at the thought of the US turning around and withdrawing back to Hawaii - most from down that way know China would simply takeover the leadership in the region, from Taiwan, Japan, SK, HK, down through the South China Sea and right down into Australia.

That's what's happened here - the US abruptly exited and the Taliban have immediately stepped into the total void left by the US (and incidentally, they are now backed by...China). Brilliant.

I really hope the US stays in Asia/Pac tbf that may be where troops and budget are headed.

What a sad situation and very scary one.

September 11th was such a sad tragic attack it's likely we are going to see more similar - especially now the taliban are likely very angry and probably want revenge to make up for the last 20 years

@afghanistanwhatnow

What a sad situation and very scary one.

September 11th was such a sad tragic attack it's likely we are going to see more similar - especially now the taliban are likely very angry and probably want revenge to make up for the last 20 years

But the Taliban didn't commit 9/11? That was al-Qaeda. I agree with the general point you're making but my understanding is that the Taliban have always been quite inward looking.

@SionnachRua of course it was al quaeda - see told you my knowledge on politics is limited 😂🤦‍♀️

Tbf I did know that just forgot for a moment!

The thing is that we can’t be held to ransom over 9/11. Essentially what you’re saying is that if we don’t stay in Afghanistan there will be more 9/11 type attacks.

Personally I think enough sons and brothers and husbands have given their lives for a country who never wanted our intervention in the first place.

We didn’t go into Afghanistan because we wanted to change things over there, we went in out of revenge for 9/11.

the power structure that existed before the US invaded was the Taliban. Nothing has changed. the us didn't create the taliban. it was already there and already being brutal to women and everyone else. the invasion gave some chance for change/proper government but it didn't work - and it was 20 years of support, training, and investment. I was reading about the horrors of the Taliban in the 1990s (Marie Claire of all mags did an excellent piece). Jay Leno's wife was trying to draw attention to what was going on there since the 1990s - long before the invasion. The biggest response was when they blew up the buddhas in early 2001 - what they were doing to women was largely ignored.

not sure what the solution is - the situation is horrific - but the US didn't create the Taliban and they didn't destroy a legitimate power structure in Afghanistan.

@AlternativePerspective yes I agree but how there will be retaliation because of the revenge attitude and withdraws if makes us look weak - defeated.

I'm not saying we should have stayed there but we didn't do a good enough job at finding the problem people and taking them out (sounds awful but would have been the only way I can see)

You always need an exit strategy and plan. There was none ever here. I don’t know what the answer is but it sure as hell wasn’t and shouldn’t have been this

Also agree with another poster that not everyone wants the western way of living.

We think it's great but we aren't perfect!

And I don't agree with taliban at all but if the majority are in favour then why are we trying to fight for them?

The only benefit there I see is to help the minority that want it abs to stop terror threats

And how do you propose we took them out when the Taliban is essentially the population?

We could kill off all the ones we found, but there were always going to be more.

Now all we’ve achieved is arming the Taliban through the Afghan army who were essentially keeping up the pretence of wanting the change until we pulled out and they could all rejoin the Taliban for the change they really wanted.

*the power structure that existed before the US invaded was the Taliban. Nothing has changed."

Absolutely it was delayed a while, but Afghanistan is a paradise for warlords and always will be. A large chunk of.population want it.

Well many commentators saying today that having a presence there would have been OK as we do in other countries peacefully
, good idea or not I don't know.

I think when the soldiers first went in, schools should have been built and in rural areas girls also.

Education... A word bandied about but what education has gone on and will now go on soley through the prism of Islam?

What about the rights of man Thomas p.. Every man born free and equal?
Margaret atwood the handmaid tale and other feminist literature... Philosophy, the Greek and Romans...

I think in many ways the troops were too culturally sensitive eg turning blind eye to the treatment of women and then the boys taken and raped.

I don't blame America for withdrawing at all.
I feel the west relies too much on America and is toothless without it.
It can always be there like the sleeping giant we can unleash if needed but the eu needs to start pulling its weight, Australia, new Zealand etc

What I think is horrific is the way its been done.
Publicly drawing down soldiers... Having no visa in place in case, no contingent plan!!

It's taken days for the airport to be secure, if you can call it that.. And yet now the taliban have road blocks all around it so that small window to get in for evry day folk has been lost.

There already should have been enough troops to secure it, it's the first stragety move in any collapse.

Biden said they were near by 🤔, well not near by enough
What a scramble

What a disaster.

• the elders look both ways

Ie taliban and whatever else

They are a wiley people who have learned to exist with what ever structure has been thrust upon them.

Have you heard of the Anglo-Afghan Wars? Are you aware of how the state of Afghanistan came into being? Britain's history in that region over the last several hundred years?

We have a lot of responsibility for fucking things up there and it goes back much further than the last 20 years.