To not want DD getting changed/undressed around older half siblings?

[Meeklynamechanged]

I've NC for this because a large part of me feels I am probably being unreasonable and projecting due to historical things in my own past and some question marks as to what DSC may have been exposed to - but a small niggling part of me thinks I have a point.

I have two DC with my OH, my youngest is a DD who is 2.5

OH has two boys, 9 and 10. We're not married but I'll call them DSC for ease of the thread.

When DSC stay over here and it's bath night for ours, OH thinks nothing of getting DD totally undressed undressed in the living room including nappy off, infront of DSC, for her bath.

Tonight oldest DSC was laying upside down on the sofa and DD ran straight up to him, nude, and was dancing around being silly. Totally innocent but made me uncomfortable.

When DSC are going to have a shower/bath, OH is very clear that they must get undressed in the bathroom. No stripping down in common areas.

That doesn't apply to my two as far as he's concerned.

I don't like the disparity and feel like, as the only female, DD deserves the same privacy especially from older males.

I was exposed to some things I shouldn't have been as a child which granted make me a little overprotective, but not only that - DSC have only recently been downgraded from a child protection order because their mothers step dad is a convicted paedophile and she was facilitating contact between him and DSC.

Some of you will remember my post, I was frantic on here at the time. There was police involvement and the 'grandad' arrested for having what the police deemed to be indecent photos of the boys.

There's no suggestion that they have been physically abused, thank god, but the whole thing came out of the blue and shook me.

I just want to stress that I've no reason to believe DD would be at risk from her siblings, they have never given me any cause for concern at all - they're truly lovely boys - this is very much a 'me' thing.

Do you think IABU?

With all of that in mind?

I think it pays to be aware of these things, and to change the routine, if it means you're more at ease.
I would feel the same.

There is no need for her to get naked in the livingroom before a bath. Absolutely no need. Fair enough in her room, but most people ,including children and toddlers take their clothes off in the bathroom... and leave them there to get soaked,trampled,dripped on and stumbled upon. You can definitely have a conversation with your OH about that. Nothing to do with the boys,just that it makes more sense.

At that age however, if she wants to be naked and run around she should be able to. She'll probably do it anyways and she shouldn't be told off or shamed for it. As she grows she'll develop more and more need for privacy naturally.

I can see your point of view OP.

I can also understand DHs point of view. If there were concerns his sons were being exposed to possible sexual abuse, I can imagine he wants to ensure that they maintain their privacy in an attempt to safeguard them. Much in the same way as you want to do for your DD.

But I think you are very naive and misguided to presume your DD is more vulnerable that your own DS or that your DS is any less vulnerable than DD at this age.

*When DSC are going to have a shower/bath, OH is very clear that they must get undressed in the bathroom. No stripping down in common areas.

That doesn't apply to my two as far as he's concerned.*

Nope, healthy boundaries for everyone. Absolutely no need to strip a child in front of anyone but their parents. DD is entitled to privacy around her body, as are the older children.

I don't like the disparity and feel like, as the only female, DD deserves the same privacy especially from older males.

Correct.

I was exposed to some things I shouldn't have been as a child which granted make me a little overprotective, but not only that - DSC have only recently been downgraded from a child protection order because their mothers step dad is a convicted paedophile and she was facilitating contact between him and DSC.

Given what may or may not have been some blurred lines around personal boundaries, I think it's healthy to have ground rules around bath time & undressing in the home. Quite frankly, I think it's very odd for anyone to insist on taking a child's clothes off in front of other people rather than doing so in private. It's not about shame around the body, moreso about consent; your child does not have the capacity to consent to being naked around other people so it's down to the parent to safeguard and make that decision for them. Also, I always think about down the line when that child is older and you have a jeery sibling who says something along the lines of "yeah well you used to dance around naked in the living room!" Eugh.

The bathroom is on the same floor as the living room and admittedly I usually get DS and DD ready for a bath in the living room myself. There's more space and it has become habit, switching to the bathroom wouldn't be an issue though.

To be honest I had no intention of bathing them tonight as they had one yesterday but DSC mum told OH that it's shower night for the boys and they had to have a wash so OH decided to bath our two aswell so they weren't left out so to speak.

DD is bath mad and would have probably kicked up a fuss about having one herself if she knew DSS' were going to and she wasn't.

I really appreciate the sensitively written replies and acknowledgment that I'm not coming from a bad place with my reservations. Thank you.

With those ages YABU. She's their little sister, so yes, she will need space when older but now it's totally ok. She's just a baby to them and they're still only children themselves but even if they were older as her brothers it would still be ok, some older siblings would help with getting little siblings washed and dressed, and if it was a girl and her younger sibling no one would even think if this as wrong. Obviously you are thinking of your DD and you know you're likely projecting, but I think most women who have an older brother wouldn't think a thing of it that he saw them undressed when they were two.

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The bathroom is on the same floor as the living room and admittedly I usually get DS and DD ready for a bath in the living room myself.

Just to clarify on my above post, I was referring to when DSC aren't here.

My DH has much younger half sisters. I am sure that he has never thought of them as anything other than his kid sisters.

On the other hand, I do think on occasion boundaries can be overstepped with curious children. I do know of somebody whose child returned absolutely traumatised from a sleepover. The parents were absolutely blindsided because it was another child. My mother was a nanny when she was young and she told me once about finding a pair of very young siblings getting up to some hair raising behaviour. The children didn't realise they were doing anything wrong and the parents made sure new boundaries were introduced immediately.

I think that to avoid things that can cause a life time of regret there is no harm in arranging things so that there is a reduced chance of any such behaviour ever happening. I would tell your other half that however much it might seem silly to him, that you would like your daughter to be undressed in the bathroom. It is not some sacred rite that she has to be stripped down in the sitting room. I think it is enough that it would make you feel better. There is no need to make a big fuss about it or make your DD feel embarrassed about her body - just a slight change of routine is all that is required.

I'm glad I posted now, it's helpful to see what others think.

My worry was that as soon as I broached it with OH he would inadvertently see it as me saying his boys are a risk to DD. That he would jump straight onto a defensive footing and out the window goes any chance of discussing it properly.

He thinks in very black and white ways and can struggle to see from others POV, naturally as their father he would be upset at the implication they'd ever look at or behave toward DD inappropriately.

Not that I'm insinuating that they ever, ever would, I'm just sure he would think that I am.

He may be their father Meeklynamechanged but you are your kids' mother and we are talking about your daughter and whether she should be naked around the other kids. You do get a say and if he belittles your views I would say that his behaviour is in the wrong.

10 year age gap between me and my sibling and our half siblings who we lived with (same mum) never crossed my mind to look at them sexually as they were always naked. Quite a sickening way to think op.

Quite ridiculous to assume just because one person doesn't do something someone else wouldn't either!

And don't try and Shane the OP for looking out for her kids privacy or safety.

Shame

YANBU, I'm with you on this. There is no need for any of the kids to be naked in front of each other. Set appropriate boundaries for them all. If you don't want your DSC naked in front of your kids then your kids should not be naked in front of them. They should all undress in the bathroom for a bath. You must have heard of the pants rule? Private parts are private. There's a difference between introducing privacy and making anyone feel ashamed.

OP if I remembering your previous thread correctly, the DSC mom was in a bit of a state of denial about the possibility of the step grandfather being a sex offender? I hope that has all been worked through - I noted in your post SS have moved them off child protection so must be happy with progress, but I was thinking more of relationships between you, DH and the ex wife co-parenting together into the future
I wish you safety, security and happiness OP

My worry was that as soon as I broached it with OH he would inadvertently see it as me saying his boys are a risk to DD. That he would jump straight onto a defensive footing and out the window goes any chance of discussing it properly.

His feelings - or in fact, anyone's feelings - do not trump your child's right to privacy. He needs to start seeing how odd it is that his children get privacy and DD doesn't. And even if that's to protect his sons from anything that has or has not happened, the same logic can be applied to DD. Why does her body and her privacy not rank with the same importance as the others. "Because she's only two!" isn't sufficient. Privacy doesn't just kick in later on. It's the same child, same body.

There are many parallels in your description of the entire situation with my own, and I would say no, you're not unreasonable, it won't hurt anyone at all to be that bit more cautious.

@Meeklynamechanged

The bathroom is on the same floor as the living room and admittedly I usually get DS and DD ready for a bath in the living room myself.

Just to clarify on my above post, I was referring to when DSC aren't here.

Before things happened with the DSC where did they get changed for a bath?

It has only been for the last few month's or so that OH has taken the lead with bath time and bathed ours when DSC are here. Previously I'd bath them on nights DSC are at their mums. Less faff, less water being used.

They spend 1 night a week here generally and come for their tea twice, but with it being the summer holidays we have them more often, as much as OH's work rota allows.

With regards to the SS involvement, they're still on a CIN plan but the SW is satisfied that their mum is no longer facilitating contact between the grandad and the boys.

Some of you might remember I was essentially frozen out of being kept in the loop because I lost my shit with OH a few times when I didn't feel he was acknowledging the severity of the situation and was in denial himself to begin with.
He doesn't talk to me about it anymore.

The biological grandma still lives with the grandad citing 'nowhere else to go' and the boys mum is still as thick as thieves with her, which I have my own very opinions about, but she knows that if she were to take them around him she'd lose them and that is deterrent enough in SS minds.

@Italiangreyhound

Sorry, by that, I mean I don't think this logic is at all flawed - even if there are some cases where boys have been vulnerable to girls or girls vulnerable to other girls or boys to other boys.

Any child or adult could be an abuser, they are just not likely to be.

But if a child or adult is going to sexually do anything inappropriate/abuse with a child or adult then the likelihood is it will be a male to a female and maybe also an older male to a younger female.

But i would feel the same if the child were a young male with older female half siblings. It's just not necessary to undress them in the living room in front of each other.

In this case if there is a risk the boys were abused by a male wouldn't that make the little boy more at risk than the girl, or as much at risk? I don't know just asking?

They were spoken to by the authorities / OH / his ex who are satisfied that they haven't been physically abused as the boys are adamant, but of course there is no way of knowing for absolute certain.

I think the issue is he is not doing anything out of the ordinary,just doing what you expect always done but now the boys are around sometimes because they are at your house more. Your best options (if you don't want to make it about his boys) are either stopping the livingroom changing entirely, or preempting the need for a bath either with a schedule or you bathing her first. Both your kids actually. Then it's the same rules for all and no double standards.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

I think the issue is he is not doing anything out of the ordinary,just doing what you expect always done but now the boys are around sometimes because they are at your house more. Your best options (if you don't want to make it about his boys) are either stopping the livingroom changing entirely, or preempting the need for a bath either with a schedule or you bathing her first. Both your kids actually. Then it's the same rules for all and no double standards.

Both of those things could work definitely

I agree that it's an age thing. At 2.5 i wouldn't be at all concerned. If she was 8 and this was still happening then yeah. But she's pretty much still a baby.