How to become vegan if you enjoy dairy and a bit of meat but want to give them up on principle?

[malificent7]

I used to be vegan 25 years ago before it became trendy. Unfortunately it was tough back then , i gad no support from family/ friends/ society and I was tunnel vision resulting in an eating disorder.
I would like to ve vegan again due to climate change and I genuinely like my veg but i don't want to become they typical vegan bore again and i like meat and dairy. Sounds a bit stupid but id like to give it another go...any tips?

Aren't plant milks more harmful to the environment than cow's milk?

@malificent7

core.ac.uk/download/pdf/185315015.pdf

“The free-range egg production systems were proven to be less efficient than the cage systems, and therefore, had higher environmental impacts. The major differentiator was the fact that free-range birds use more feed per kilogram of eggs produced compared to cage birds.”

Feed will often be imported soya usually from South America which potentially involved deforestation.

From an ethical perspective, in the free range egg industry male chicks are gassed or ground alive shortly after hatching as they are surplus to requirements. Spent egg laying hens (aged around 2) also go to slaughter. The way we have bred egg laying hens is such that they lay far more eggs than their bodies can sustain, often resulting in painful reproductive diseases like egg yolk peritonitis. Laying eggs is also painful for the hens and we have selectively bred them to do this nearly every day.

These are free range hens www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/horrifying-truth-brutal-life-free-7634201.amp

As are these
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/watch-hens-from-free-range-happy-egg-suppliers-suffering-in-misery-in-filthy-crammed-and-overcrowded-sheds-245150/%3famp

The most ethical option would be to adopt ex battery hens. It would still not be vegan to eat any eggs that they lay but at least you could give them a good life.

@Snoozer11 nope www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46654042.amp

mustlovegin do you think I'm bullying people by saying we should be consuming animal products with a smaller environmental impact?
I don't have any easy answers as to how we transition to a more sustainable meat & dairy sector but it needs to be done.
I totally appreciate some people need to eat these products and many more people choose to - I'm one of them, I have no problem with my body being a 'morgue' as a PP put it - my argument is three-fold really. Reduce food wastage & over-production, reduce consumption (with exceptions for people with specific nutritional needs 😉) & improve environmental & ethical standards of livestock & plant farming.
Also probably eat more insects & seaweed.
I'm a big supporter of livestock farmers, well the good ones anyway.

reduce consumption (with exceptions for people with specific nutritional needs)

Well, just on this thread we've mentioned diabetics, coeliacs, and - now that you've mentioned seaweed- their enormous iodine content will throw a vast number of people's (mostly women) thyroid out of kilter. Not to mention being really detrimental for those already suffering from hyper or hypothyroidism.

There are many people with nutritional needs, not everyone's health is on tip top condition, not everyone can absorb supplements and nutrients from plants due to genetics.

So it's time all the brainy self-appointed advisors went back to the drawing board, as your 'solutions' - rationing WW2 style- will not cut it.

There are some gorgeous vegan foods around. So very many foods... I haven't eaten meat for years, or dairy - don't ever feel the need. I have two tubs of scrummy icecream in the freezer, plant cream, cheese and milk in the fridge. I have vegan mayo, salad cream, garlic mayo and bacon mayo which I don't think they make for non-veegs. Loads of ready made foods available, and I have a dozen or so recipe books (quick and easy meals). Really - it's not hard to be vegan. And just because I like some animal foods is no justification for eating them when I know what getting them to my plate involves. So I don't. Easy.

OP why not become vegetarian as a first step. it seems to be all or nothing these days, but I would have thought giving up meat was the obvious thing to do (and poultry and fish) and then wean yourself off dairy (if you can, I don't think I ever could).

@igelkott2021

OP why not become vegetarian as a first step. it seems to be all or nothing these days, but I would have thought giving up meat was the obvious thing to do (and poultry and fish) and then wean yourself off dairy (if you can, I don't think I ever could).

I have more problem ethically drinking milk or eating cheese than eating free range or wild animals swiftly despatched because of the dairy industry and the fact that the milk we drink is meant for calves, and for us to have it, well, join the dots.

I don't have any easy answers as to how we transition to a more sustainable meat & dairy sector

Also, while these organisations (no idea who appointed or finances them) are devising their 'roadmaps', do you consult with the vast number of patients/people to be affected by this? And doctors/scientists - not the bogus ones scared of twitter mobs and lobbyists, but the real ones?

One person on this thread said they are a diabetic and some posters appeared surprised, almost as if they had seen alien. Similarly coeliacs. These are conditions that affect many, they are not minorities by any chance.

It's scary and chaotic

Have you ever entertained the idea that the reason why you might struggle with veganism isn't because of your lack of willpower, but because as a human you just aren't biologically wired like a cow or goat?

Food is not just about what tastes good. Most things that are bad for us taste amazing. But we don't run on amazing tastes, we run on nutrients. You might be able to trick your eyes into believing you're eating cheese, milk and chicken when you consume the plat-based substitutes for them, but your body knows exactly what it is you're feeding it - and is telling you, by making you struggle with adhering to veganism, that it doesn't get what it needs. I'd just drop the silly idea of going vegan and stick to eating the diet appropriate for my species. Eating shouldn't be something you have to "struggle" with.

Humans are frugivores like other apes. There is no nutrient produced by animals that a normal human can’t get from a vegan diet. And no animal is wired to need the milk of another species, much less the mouldy/congealed milk ie cheese!

To expand on my frugivore comment. All apes other than humans eat a diet of which the majority is plant content (leaves, fruit, flowers, seeds etc) with the occasional insects, eggs, small lizards, or some small birds/mammals depending on the species. Chimpanzees, our closest relatives, sometimes eat smaller species of monkey. But no apes are unable to get the nutrients they need without meat in their diet.

@PattyPan

Humans are frugivores like other apes. There is no nutrient produced by animals that a normal human can’t get from a vegan diet. And no animal is wired to need the milk of another species, much less the mouldy/congealed milk ie cheese!

Vegan omega 3 sources are useless as they contain too much salt / omega 6 to be heart healthy. Also, the vitamin D added to plant milk is the vegan kind (D2) which is ineffective. D3 can be either but is usually derived from wool - makes them vegetarian but not vegan.

And yet vegetarians and vegans have a well-studied lower risk of heart disease.
I actually had my vitamin D level tested last year, and the doctor was really impressed by how good it was. That’s from a D2 supplement Sept-March (as per NHS advice for everyone regardless of diet) and normal exposure to sun.

@PattyPan

And yet vegetarians and vegans have a well-studied lower risk of heart disease. I actually had my vitamin D level tested last year, and the doctor was really impressed by how good it was. That’s from a D2 supplement Sept-March (as per NHS advice for everyone regardless of diet) and normal exposure to sun.

Higher stroke risk though for vegetarians and vegans.

Not all studies have shown a higher stroke risk - only the EPIC one afaik and that was only for haemorrhagic strokes, not the more common ischaemic - that study still showed a lower risk of ischaemic strokes for vegans & vegetarians.

normal exposure to sun

This is what's giving you excellent Vit D levels PattyPan, not your D2 supplements which are a very poor choice

I doubt it otherwise why is vitamin D deficiency so widespread in this country?

I doubt it otherwise why is vitamin D deficiency so widespread in this country?

Vit D2 is a poor choice as it needs to be converted, then absorbed. I assume many people don't supplement with D3 or do not get any sun exposure at all. Those who are very fair skinned can get good levels very quickly from relatively little sun exposure

Well exposure to the sun is vegan so if we can get excellent vitamin D levels that way then that’s fine! I supplement vegan D3 to be on the safe side.

I don’t think algae oil supplements have high levels of salt and since the fish get their omegas from algae I can’t see why it would be useless, or any worse than a non vegan source of omega 3.

I think threads like these naturally tend to bring out posters who have strong feeling about the subject or who have stories to tell. I think in real life being vegan, or living a mostly, but not totally, ‘plant based’ existence is very normal and not something people care about.

I eat a lot of meat free meals but I am not a vegetarian. I think that is really really common these days.
I used to work in an abattoir as a meat inspector and I killed quite a few animals in my time ( illegally as I wasn’t a licensed slaughter man or whatever they are called these days). I never witnessed any deliberate cruelty at any of the abattoirs where I worked. Everyone just wanted to finish work as quickly and safely as possible and that meant it was in everyone’s interests to keep the animals calm and to kill them with as little fuss as possible. It very occasionally went wrong, for example I saw a big old bull that wasn’t instantly stunned by a captive bolt gun like it should have been but the slaughter men killed it as soon as they could.

Working in abattoirs didn’t put me off meat at all, however I really wish it wasn’t legal to transport live animals big distances. Now that is cruel.
I only buy local raised and locally slaughtered meat.

@dashel you said it beaitufully. I have never ever started on a meat eater, don't get me wrong ill give advice if I'm asked (as I was on this thread) but I constantly have meat eaters going on about how good steak is., or how vegans are wrong, or how we are all weirdos.

I tried the applewood cheese and whilst it was om it was no way as nice as real apple wood cheese. Vegan cheese is plasticy.

No*

I’ve found the spreads better than the hard cheeses. Nush almond milk cheese is really nice, especially the chive one which is reminiscent of Boursin.
I recently tried the vegan Mexicana slices which worked well on a burger.