How to become vegan if you enjoy dairy and a bit of meat but want to give them up on principle?

[malificent7]

I used to be vegan 25 years ago before it became trendy. Unfortunately it was tough back then , i gad no support from family/ friends/ society and I was tunnel vision resulting in an eating disorder.
I would like to ve vegan again due to climate change and I genuinely like my veg but i don't want to become they typical vegan bore again and i like meat and dairy. Sounds a bit stupid but id like to give it another go...any tips?

kikisparks Thank you for posting all that info. I’m on my phone and find it difficult to add links, but always get wound up by people on this kind of thread claiming that continuing to eat meat and dairy is fine as long as you eat local and what about avocados etc etc….It might be a comforting story that people tell themselves in order to have to avoid changing their diets, but, inconveniently, it is also completely untrue.

Hiya. We're vegetarian as a family and I'm trying hard to cut down on dairy. I'm also very conscious of UPFs (ultra processed foods) since listening to a podcast by the two doctors from Operation Ouch and I think there are quite a few vegan processed concoctions I'd want to avoid... It ain't easy to do it really well if you're time poor and I struggle a bit with the logistics. We do get oat milk delivered in glass bottles by the milk man but I only like cow's in my cuppa and I'm a tea fiend!
Good luck with whatever you decide. As others have said, even cutting down is really positive. Also, great you're aware of your propensity towards disordered eating. I'm doing intermittent fasting nowadays as I've put on weight since menopause and I'm wary of slipping into less healthy eating patterns which I fell into when younger. Take care

OP I think you should give it a go, but be very careful. I’m a very pro vegan person but I’m always wary how to advocate it if someone has had an eating disorder. You do not want to end up harming yourself.

Did you have a dietician last time you had an eating disorder? In your situation I would suggest speaking to a professional first so that there is some support in place if you feel things are going the way they were before. If you don’t have your own dietician there are quite a lot of vegan friendly dieticians out there- some listed here plantbasedhealthprofessionals.com/directory-of-uk-plant-based-health-professsionals . Any dietician should really support you (as long as you are not compromising your health) as the British Dietic Association says a well-planned vegan diet can “support healthy living in people of all ages”.

As for tips this website is good and if you sign up (for free) you will get recipes, meal plans, dieticians advice, mentors and more. The mentors will support you and there will be no judgement whatsoever if you slip up, and no preaching. challenge22.com/ They don’t allow anyone with a current eating disorder to sign up because they don’t want anyone to be harmed but they will allow you if you’re fully recovered.

The most climate friendly option is to have a whole foods plant based diet but do allow yourself some vegan processed foods if it makes life easier. A suggested shopping list:

Some whole grains (brown rice, oats, bulgur wheat, barley etc)
Some wholewheat bread/ wraps/ bagels and pasta/ noodles
A few varieties of canned beans and lentils (or cheaper, dried beans)
Some leafy greens (I.e. spinach, kale, broccoli, lettuce, cabbage etc)
Some other veg (I.e. potatoes, mushrooms, tomatoes, beetroot, peas, squash, carrots etc)
Some fruit, local where possible (berries, apples, plums, pears etc)
A couple of blocks of Tofu and if you want, some meat analogues (beyond burgers, Richmond vegan sausages, soya mince etc)
If convenience is needed, some jar sauces like sweet and sour, pasta sauce, chilli sauce, bbq sauce, curry sauce, vegan cream cheese and vegan cream to for a creamy sauce etc or you can make your own sauces
Some plant milk (hemp and oat are best environmentally but any are better than cow’s milk)
Some vegan spread- naturli is best environmentally as it’s palm oil free but there’s also flora (most flavours but not buttery), vitalite, pure and violife spreads
Some nut butters
If you want- some biscuits (Jammy dodgers, bourbons, party rings, fruit shortcake, ginger nuts etc) and/or chocolate (nomo bars, vegan galaxy, most dark chocolate) and/ or ice cream (vegan Ben and jerrys, Swedish glace, vegan magnums, vegan cornettos etc)

Every few weeks:
Some nuts and seeds
Herbs and spices (and vegetable stock, salt, pepper, vinegar, soy sauce, oil, garlic etc)

Out of those things you could make loads of things such as:

Porridge
Salads
Bean chilli with bulgur wheat
Soups like red Lentil and barley soup with toast
Vegetable chickpea curry with brown rice
Tofu sweet and sour Stir fry with noodles
Shepherds Pie made with green lentils
Roast squash stuffed with herbs, spices, beans and tomatoes
Pea, kale butter bean and mushroom risotto
Spaghetti bolognese made with green lentils
Bbq bean burritos

And many more. Best of luck!

@HasaDigaEebowai I was replying to people saying local is better than plant based and explaining that according to scientific peer reviewed articles it isn’t. Plant based with imports (which as you say can have a lower carbon footprint anyway) is better than local with meat.

I eat masses of vegan food but I had to go back to cows milk for milk - I just can't drink any other milk in tea

I just buy one pint every two weeks (and drink as much black coffee as I can)

@crackofdoom absolutely. I actually see why people think it, we’re told about food miles etc and so it seems logical to think that local is better but that’s without looking at the big picture. In the ipsos mori survey only 20% correctly identified that plant based was better than local.

If you’re near Manchester, try Wholesome Junkies, their vegan burgers are amazing!

Im not a vegan but i give up dairy for lent each year, so for those trying alternative milks with tea, have you tried just drinking black tea instead. I find this odd for a day or two then dont notice.

I was veggie for about 30 years before I went vegan, so it wasn’t as big a transition for me, but the advice I would give is you don’t have to make any changes overnight.

Next time you go food shopping pick up a couple of vegan products and see if you like them. I tried different milks and found I liked oat milk and gave up having cow milk.

After that I tried butter and have the salted flora blocks and only bought that going forward.

Take it slowly as there is no rush and lots of things to try and if you are worried about your eating disorder coming back then stop straight away.

It might be that you end up eating some vegan products and meat.

DH is omni, but we only have vegan butter, Heinz vegan mayo and salad cream, vegan perinaise, agave nectar instead of honey and will happily eat some vegan burgers/mince. We also tend to buy mostly vegan biscuits and crisps as it’s easier. Oh and all the wine is vegan!

Just stop eating whatever you're lucky enough to choose not to eat right now and stop telling everyone about it. If you're worried about climate change, just don't eat anything imported or processed, just good quality local food. Cut out lentils, quinoa, avocado, banana, most nuts and seeds, oranges, squash, jackfruit, melons almost all nut butters, most beans, anything with palm or peanut oil in it, rice and most herbs and spices. Avoiding the processed fake meats is quite straightforward.

Nobody cares what you eat and nobody wants to hear about it - that's how you stop being a bore.

@dunkaccino that advice is wrong. Scientifically it’s better to eat plant based with imports than local with meat, see upthread for the links to the articles showing that. Much better to have imported lentils than local beef.

That advice is only 'wrong' if you read the articles that you want to link to above. Much better to eat local beef than lentils. Stop driving, flying and having so many children to make a far greater impact than food choice.

My first tip is to not try to create your usual meals using meat and dairy substitutes. They are nowhere near as nice and make me feel deprived. Find recipes intended to be plant based online. There are so many now and they are so delicious and healthy I'm happy with them as an alternative to my previous meat based meals.
My second tip is that every reduction of meat and dairy helps, you don't have to be all in to make a difference. So if you really can't manage without a little milk or the odd egg, it's far better for the environment to have a 90% vegan based diet than to give up entirely because its too hard.

I see people using the tag of 'plant-based' these days to desribe eating mostly plants but sometimes the odd bit of dairy or even meat. Might it be helpful to you since it's not based on exclusions?

I eat cheese a couple of times a week in small amounts (CBA to make a different pesto to the kids for example). On the odd occasion when eating out I have some meat or seafood.

The two things that have really helped have been getting a veg box (so many veggies I have to eat before they go wrinkly!) and getting some flash new coobooks. I'm cooking my way through One Pot, Pan, Planet at the moment, which is great.

Since DH and the kids still eat meat and dairy, we often cook a meal of a few bits, that everyone can choose e.g. fried halloumi, yoghurt, wraps, salad and chickpeas, or greek salad, pitta, chickpea salad and grilled chicken.

@dunkaccino so it’s scientific peer reviewed articles vs an unsubstantiated claim by you?

Sure having no car, taking no or fewer flights and having no or fewer children have a bigger impact than diet but you can do all of those things and have a more climate friendly diet, it doesn’t have to be either or.

Stop driving, flying and having so many children to make a far greater impact than food choice

Actually you are wrong
If the world went vegan it would do more for climate change than any of the things you mention. They are just fiddling round the edges, a few percentage points here and there. After all flying and driving especially were significantly cut down in the last 18 months and even the worlds population has been impacted and yet we are now in a worse situation that ever re climate change.

There are reports that if we all went vegan we could reduce emissions by 70%
That a family of 4 produce more carbon emissions because of the meat on their plates than driving 2 cars.
Yet no one mentions the meat issue.

Those in charge of trying to control climate change are encouraging people to point fingers at people going on holiday or what car they drive or big families and say that they are to blame for climate change rather than tell people the biggest threat to this planet is their own eating habits.

Oh don't be so silly. How can you possibly try to say that a vegan child has less environmental impact than the child never existing? This level of bigoted stupidity is why I'm not reading anything more on this thread.

If your driver is climate change then I'd observe the 80:20 rule. Every little helps.

Thanks for the amazing feedback people.

So i dont drink milk in my coffee anyway...prefer black. Will get oat for tea.
I try to eat less cheese. I went through a phase of making vegan " cheese" at home. No time for that atm but worth a go occassionally.

I have more or less cut out red meat altogether. However recently I have been eating a fair bit of chicken and fish. I feel most uncomfortable about fish as i believe the oceans are being ransacked...i need to get the omega 3 and B12 in.

Umm. Why are you vegan ? If it’s for the environment then carry on exactly as you are.

The environmental gains of getting rid of the 2% of your diet that ain’t vegan is negligible.

Eldest is vegan like this. Vegan at home with a little cheese. Will eat meat out if people have bought / cooked it for her but not as a choice.

Makes her very green but also not a pain to host eg for grand parents etc.

Haven’t rtft but as a vegan myself I would say just make the changes you can. Being vegan / plant based 90% of the time is better than not at all.

I disagree when people say vegan meat alternatives arent as good. Beyond neat is delicious!

Eldest is vegan like this. Vegan at home with a little cheese. Will eat meat out if people have bought / cooked it for her but not as a choice

Then they aren't a vegan.

I was also just about to say this. There’s no such think as a vegan who eats a little cheese and meat. She’s just somebody who doesn’t eat much meat.

I believe she could call herself a ‘flexitarian’ which is basically someone who doesn’t eat much meat but feels the need to have a label for it.